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| What the hell is going on with us? | ||
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| Pockyninja |
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Ruler of all that is pocky
Registered Member #28
Joined: Mon Nov 28 2005, 11:17PMPosts: 704 |
Your right Alex I only had that one complaint about your system that I didnt realize till the last vote (which was that disapprovle didnt mean shit). So I can proudly speak of being for hte past system since I dont see such a small problem as being anything unfixable. That would be like throwing out a brand new car becouse you got a small dent in the bumper. I still wouldnt have a problem if we reinstated the old system beocuse all I would need do is make a single agust ment and it owuld be fine for me lol. (I didnt forget but I dont have a fault with 99.9% of the system) Also nice comments alex I agree with most of what you said. Nightrider wrote ... You guys dont see the point that Im trying to make. Its not like I am forcing you to respond to everything that is posted. This is vital for us. You dont see the legitemancy of what this means. I wanted your input on this because this is a major fundamental of the clan. Everyone should have to vote on this, and everyone should put their input in on something. Im sick of people just looking at the thread and having the lack of response for it. Even if you have 1 thing you have to say about something, say it God dammit. We want to hear what you have to say. You said that I should give things a chance? Why should Bubble give things a chance when nobody cares to read them? How are they supposed to know about the voting system when they dont read it? Do you see what Im tryting to tell you? This is so in the future when a problem comes up with the system we dont have to have someone point out a flaw and then the one person say that they are confused on the voting system. All Im trying to do is prevent future dilemas so that we dont have to have another Bobby Digital case. You dont see that though, and thats what Im trying to fix right now. That is the whole reason that the old voting system was abolished, primarily because of that. So when you want to tell me that Im raising drama your wrong. Im not here to raise drama. Im here to alert you of what the fuck is going on. Its not just you that is rediculed Pocky, its others that need to step in. And there is no "inner" members. All of the members are the same. A clan requirement that was discussed in the rules, which btw I can tell you did not read them because its firmly in there, is that you have to be active on the forums. Once again, Im trying to get that through people's heads. This isnt just any old problem, this is the future of the clan. You people have to understand that. I understand exsactly what your saying and from what I have understood since the begining of this clan is it was a clan where oyu chose your level of involvement. That is osmethign I have always loved abotu this clan it is the kind where I can play and hang out with my frends and still haev a life outside of counterstrike. Not everyone chooses to be increebly active on the forums or have involvement in the works of the clan and hey that isnt for everyone. Maybe they dont liek to deal with the nitty gritty. I know oyu werent jsut talking to me and I am not the only one on trial but I am one of them I have a incredbly low post count, I didnt input anything into the creation or upkeep of any voteing system so far aside form voting, and I dont always make long post exsplaing my postion on this. The reaosn I am posting such post is becouse I have a postion to say and so I iwll state it I dont act as if I am the onyl one who is being yelled at to read more and post more. I just dont think that you tryighn to force peopel to do more then they consider to be thier level of commitment to be a negtive influence. Sure it is a good thign when everyone works togeter to create a brighter future and it is all rainbows and lolly pops but we live in the real world. In reality not everyone should vote and not everyone know what they want. I dont think it is a good idea to try to push peopal away by forcing them to make more imput or get out which is what your quesiton of 'Why the hell are you here" implys. I also dont think that peopel should vote unless they truely understand the issues and have a clear idea of what they think on it. Uninformed voters is what really screws up the goverment of any system. If a voter is intrested and dedicated enough to understand the isssues and ask the question so they can udnerstand that is awsome I say more power to them read the long post ask the question get involved. Just dont try to force it on people and dont treat people as if they were on trial. Yes I sitl lthink you hsould give it a chance. A voting system isnt somethign that oyu can jsut look at and say "fuck yeh" you gotta try it out and figure out where peopel have problems and where peopel are good what is liekd and hated. Then oyu can start tryign to make changes to it to suit the peopel better. You cnat jsut dive in and say that the lack of instant feed back is horrible. There hasnt even been any votes past under the old system and already you guys are demanding there be changes which will jsut end up in half assed ideas that may have had no need. Also yes you are right there is no inner grouping of member they all have a equil chance ot put in effort but if they choose not to then just like everyone else in the clan who chooses not to they loss thier chance. The fact that anyone in this clan can vote and anyone can loss thier chance to vote by waiting to long or not paying attencehn is what makes them equil. Also it says to stay active on the forums and this is true but that is a very unspecific thing. You could actively read it like me I read it at least 3 times a day but I post little. You could also be active by posting in the funny threads wu makes or by just simply being there on the servers and making a fun game for everyone. Edited Thu Oct 26 2006, 01:01AM |
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| AwsedreswA |
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Registered Member #223
Joined: Wed Apr 26 2006, 10:53PMPosts: 126 |
Kremit, Match-lite charcoal is great. You can't beat chicken quarters marinated in apple cider vinegar with crushed black pepper and corse salt on coals. Combine that with some mushrooms marinated in minced garlic and balsamic vinegar. Grill them at the same time and you got a reason to sit and smoke with your gril ( pun intended ). 'Cuz you can munch on the deliciously juicy shrooms while you are waiting for the chicken to get its beautiful caramel color. Oh wait, this post was supposed to be about the voting shizznit. Ooops  I think the real problem here, is we tried to fix something without specifying what was broken.  I have said it before, but here it is again. The system of voting needs.... -Outline form, not paragraph form. -Keep discussion phase, US congress has it for a reason before moving to cloture. -No minimum vote time, nothing should "sneak" by. -Line item ammendments need to be addressed at some point, but that should be a seperate debate for later. |
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| Knightrider |
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Meteor 2016
Registered Member #316
Joined: Mon Jun 26 2006, 09:14PMPosts: 3503 |
I see what you are saying Pocky, but at the time I wrote this is I was extremely pissed off. Now that Im a little calm down, I can make some sense. What Im trying to do is not "Forcing" it into anyone. Im just trying to get more people involved in this. If they can post on every other thread, then why cant they put in some input on something such as this? I dont see why not. Btw Alex, thanks for stressing the "Shitty One Liner" thing. That is one thing that pisses me off to no end >< |
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| Wolf |
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Registered Member #95
Joined: Mon Dec 26 2005, 04:56AMPosts: 331 |
Now a lot of things are starting to make sense. I still believe the best way to move information to the clan is by communicating in-game. If we have pressing issues then we should try to inform as many people as possible. By just posting a topic and sitting on your hands, its like fishing without bait. Sure you catch one every once in awhile but you get a lot more if you drop a lure, or in this case talk to the community in-game. If we have a topic that you really want everyone's opinion on then maybe we could have an announcement on the servers. Or just make a conscious effort to tell as many people about it as you can. I'm guilty of reading the posts and just shrugging and leaving but I don't like shitty one-liners either. I also dislike reading novels and see them almost equally as bad. Just drop some bullets down at the end as a courtesy for us tired-eyed people. |
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| havok |
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Havok
Registered Member #442
Joined: Thu Sep 28 2006, 06:41PMPosts: 115 |
To tell you the truth, I only read a few paragraphs of nights first post before I figured i should respond to what the topic was originally about. I haven't participated in the whole voting change because I haven't been around on the forums long enough to know how the old voting system really worked and I also joined FT half way through this whole process, therefor I missed most of the important arguments/opinions/thoughts. |
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| Knightrider |
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Meteor 2016
Registered Member #316
Joined: Mon Jun 26 2006, 09:14PM Posts: 3503 |
So then I guess the solution to all problems is this: When someone is going to write a long post, put in the title "Novel, lazy people please dont read.." Dude seriously, if you dont like to read them, then I guess so be it. I really dont like the concept of that, but as you had said, who am I to force that into the minds of people. Who am I to suggest an improvement so we can act together as a community in order to establish order? Who the fuck am I to suggest that people stay involved in the forums at least once in a while in case an important topic such as the voting one? |
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| Wolf |
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Registered Member #95
Joined: Mon Dec 26 2005, 04:56AM Posts: 331 |
Sure you could say that but then it just makes you sound ignorant and immature. You didn't even try to discuss that point with me so that we could come to a happy compromise. Not to mention that you didn't even touch on the main message of my post. I'm hurt. I went through the time to become active in this discussion only to be shut down. How's that an improvement? 
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| emerican |
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Registered Member #164
Joined: Tue Mar 07 2006, 12:07PMPosts: 3146 |
we should have contests in school of who sleeps the least in a 5 day period... | ||
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| BuBBLe GooSe |
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The Original MilfHunter
Registered Member #163
Joined: Mon Mar 06 2006, 02:24PMPosts: 1592 |
I used the 'Oldschool' style of quoting, so its not too long. I suppose I should include a mandatory disclaimer or word count at the top of some of my posts. 1. Awesedreswa, congrats on being totally off-point, yet again. Awes-"Oh wait, this post was supposed to be about the voting shizznit. Ooops " No, its about people like you. Once again you have proved that you have no desire to contribute anything positive and you are uninformed. At least read the first post so you know the topic that you are butchering, even if you don't want to read any replies. Or just don't bother posting, cuz yet again you managed to piss me the fuck off. Responding to Kremits short post does not convince anyone that you actually know what the rest of the thread is about. Awes- "I think the real problem here, is we tried to fix something without specifying what was broken." We are discussing what is broken and whether or not a fix is available, or whether or not it needs fixing. Awes- "I have said it before, but here it is again. The system of voting needs.... -Outline form, not paragraph form. -Keep discussion phase, US congress has it for a reason before moving to cloture. -No minimum vote time, nothing should "sneak" by. -Line item ammendments need to be addressed at some point, but that should be a seperate debate for later." You're a fucking idiot. I responded to this the last time you posted these very concerns. (Yesterday) Check 'Amendment' in the open proposals. I'm not going to get mad this time though. I'm convinced that you are legitimately retarded. *Sigh* Its actually quite pathetic and as of now, I'm never responding to anything Awsedreswa has to say. In my mind, he no longer exists. Those who are up to date with the community clan forum will understand. Havok, your input is appreciated. Recognizing that you are relatively new and opting not to make uninformed decisions because you don't know the whole story shows a great deal of maturity. Yet if you wanted to catch up, you can always check the threads. They are still available if you want to know whats goin on. Wolf, you can only type so much in-game. The forums are an extension of what happens in-game. You have been registered on forums for a long long time, so that shouldn't be news to you. Plus, while playing, nobody wants to deal with a shitload of typing, everyone just wants to play. Reading forum posts just keeps everyone up to date, and on the same page. Nobody has been elected into the clan by way of an in-game vote, nor have changes been made in an in-game vote. Everyone isn't on playing at the same time, so forums are a way that ideas can be exchanged. If you don't like shitty one-liners, than that's fine, but the three cohesive paragraphs that you typed in this thread are put together well and your input is interesting. However I must question your statement, "I still believe the best way to move information to the clan is by communicating in-game." That may be a good way of letting other [FT]'s know that something is happening and they should go to forums for more info, but not everything clan-related could be done in-game. Pocky- "Though if we are going to go on the subject of peopel not reading I cant see any evdance that anyone ever reads what I say including bubble goose only time I ever get a responce to anythign at all was in the thread to destroy our old voting system." I've read pretty well every post made on forums since around Jan-Feb. (including yours Pocky) I didn't register until Mar. But anyways, I go through forums usually before hitting the sack. With regards to your posts Pocky, many of which are in agreement with what was suggested, or your views were in line with the majority's. Sometimes to get a direct response by an individual, you need to ask a direct question or type their name in the post. Much like the post that I got that^^ quote from. Usually to get a response, your comments have to be something other than agreements with what others have already said. I personally try to respond to any question/comment made directed at me, ask Awsedreswa. Oops, Bad example, his head is stuck in his ass and doesn't realize that I responded to his suggestion 3 seperate times/ 3 separte threads. But you get the idea. I'm sure that if a question/comment was directed at any member, then they would most likely respond. Nightrider, I can feel your frustration. Looking at the clan roster, 66 members is a shitload. Its clear that many of them play on a regular basis. Its hard understand why this doesn't translate into more participation. One would think that members of a community clan would want to participate in both facets of that community. (Game and Forums) The difference between a community clan and a clan that has central leadership is, the clan with leaders/generals is the one whereby forum say is seeingly less important. This clan, everyone has an equal say, so I suppose the added 'work' was not anticipated by some people at the time when they asked to join while others knew of the community structure and that was one of the selling points for them. But I agree with what you're saying in that, 'if you read and understand something today, then you won't screw up its application tomorrow'. It makes sense. Likewise, forcing people to read threads is a difficult proposition. I suppose people willpost in the threads that interest them, this one for example. I got the impression that the system that I proposed did not stack up to everyone's expectations. But anyways,,,, this leads me to adressing what Alex said... Alex- "There is no requirement that members even join forums, read them, or post on them." Its not a written 'requirement' per se, but its certainly implied. When someone asks an [FT] to join the clan while you're playing, what is the standard response,,, check forums. On forums, they are required to post around and get to know everyone. In the Survey, I asked whether or not postcount and total in-game hours should be taken into consideration as minimal requirements. Alex- "We've got several regulars that put in lots of time making sure our servers actually have people playing on them, and I would not ask them to do anything more." Is there a viable distinction between 'regular' and 'member of [FT]'? What separates one from the other?... Being able to wear the tag and having access to be able to post in the community clan forum would be the basics. I understand that as a server Op, you get a kick out of seeing FTC at 20/20. But don't forget that as players and FT's we like to see the same, and not just for FTC, but for all FT servers. FT's all help in trying to keep all of the servers active and productive. That is why each server has its own forum. Issues/concerns/suggestions can all be voiced in the designated forum to keep the server running smooth. Likewise a FT clan forum is there to help the FT clan run smoothly. It's all interconnected. Alex- "Until there are requirements of forum participation then please take a moment to thank our members that contribute in ways other than forum posts." I would say that there is an unwritten understanding between [FT]'s. For instance, when a recruit(potential new member) has an open thread for their membership, often times people may comment on a low post count and in turn, chose NOT to approve/vote yes based on this fact. One of the unwritten requirement to get into the clan in the first place is to contribute to the forums. There is a general assumption that... So&so posts regularly on forums, plays a lot, is a good/nice person. He should get a nomination under the assumption that he will continue to post/play/be nice and fun. Why is it necessary to post on forums to get into the clan, yet once you're in, you can buzz off?! It was understood that if someone posts on various forums and becomes a member of the Community, then when the books open up and s/he is officially into the Clan, then the same enthousiasm would translate into the Community Clan forum. People who don't post on forums are for the most part, left behind in the Introductions. (For the record, I was hoping that the Survey/Brainstorm thread could have gotten somewhere close to this kind of input. If we debated things similar to this, then the New system might have had a fighting chance.) [Mandatory Smiley Face inserterd..... here  ]
Edited Thu Oct 26 2006, 04:31AM
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| kevin |
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AKA cupcake
Registered Member #374
Joined: Fri Aug 04 2006, 03:38AMPosts: 858 |
The following post applies only if there is still an attempt being made by Bubble to create a new voting system... Ok, so while after reading the numerous threads on a new voting system over the past days / weeks, I started to think in geometry class today about how WE (as in the clan) could change the voting system for the better. I came up with this idea: 1. Start a new discussion thread with the current/ old voting system as the first post. 2. Have everyone share their input(maybe send them an e-mail?). People would share their input buy specifying what they would like changed and why. If they think that the current rules then they just say "no change". 3. When everyone shares their input(yes I realize that not everyone checks the site daily, hence the e-mails) Then the clan votes on the certain ammendments to be made, and why or why not they should be. I think thats it, if it looks a little unorganized, well I didnt take my meds today.. <3 Edited Thu Oct 26 2006, 09:40PM |
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