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| BuBBLe GooSe |
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The Original MilfHunter
Registered Member #163
Joined: Mon Mar 06 2006, 02:24PMPosts: 1592 |
ma_quote Alex.... Nostie, you want to show your 'disproval' of resignations prior to votes being passed yet the examples cited do not reflect the views of all potential applicants. Take Ninca whose nomination was voted down, yet he is still very active in the community dispite being turned down for membership. In recent memory, Popufosho withdrew his nomination for his own reasons. His brother came onto forums and caused a mild shitstorm, oddly enough he (Jualby) was VAC banned. But Pop still plays frequently. The point is, every person is different and those that want to be in the clan and show the characteristics that we look for in recruits, make it into the clan. I see that you cited Rim's example, but he realized that the clan is not what he remembered and he said that he would prefer to do his own thing. Should we as a clan toss the democratic system to the side of the road and bring in a 'military classification system' just to have him stay? Some people mesh well with FT and like the community/servers/players and some don't, I guess that's life. We can't please the entire CS community, we only strive to please a fraction of the community that likes Office/Surf/Dust as well as chatting on forums/democracy etc... Recent events bring to light an oversight in the "loosely defined rules that we so vigorously follow" that should have been caught during the Satan debate. I think that a "Rule regarding Returning FT's" should be added as a way to limit the inter-clan squabbles and something that we can collectively agree to point to, should a similar situation arise in the future. Although, had the rule been implemented prior to Rim, it still wouldn't have changed the fact that our democratic structure isn't what he expected. Look for a "Brainstorm" in Open Proposals where we can adress the concerns prior to taking it to a vote... |
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| Wildcard23 |
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Registered Member #514
Joined: Wed Dec 20 2006, 06:33AMPosts: 1067 |
Alcohol-Powered wrote ... nostie wrote ... A few other examples: Wildcard for F7L5, Kever agreeing to not go to FTC if she was going to cause trouble... I saw Wildcard's deference to a F7 nomination, and I believe had legitimate reasons for doing so. There's no way I'm going to speak for him, but I personally see nothing wrong with this after a quick glance at his comments. Alex is right in what he said. I withdrew my nomination for the surf clan for multiple reasons. Just to touch on a few was that I didn't spend enough time beforehand on the server, i wouldn't be spending a lot of time on the server, and both Jigg and I were getting ready to start a new server. The thread is here if you would like to read it again -[link]- You were one of the people who put in the thread that you hadn't seen me on surf enough prior to the nomination which was one of the main reasons I withdrew from my nomination as I didn't feel qualified. It also actually sparked some discussion from you I believe saying that before you nominate someone you should talk to that person about their interests and availability prior to a nomination. Make sure they actually want to be in the clan. I have a tough enough time as it is now spending time on FTC which is my favorite map due to hour changes at work and the start of the new server. This makes me feel guilty wearing an FT tag when I can't get in Office as much as I want. I understand you are trying to voice your discontent over an issue but using me was a poor choice as I have nothing to do with backing up your claim. In regards to Kever, she is one of the coolest people I've met on the server. I have had the opportunity to get to know her after I apologized during the ban thread because I was wrong in saying she should leave. I failed to realize how much better she makes me play in game and wanting someone who is really good in game to leave is total crap. She was willing to leave because she has feelings towards all of us and didn't want to see us arguing like little children over her. She was willing to leave and now I'm eternally grateful that she didn't leave. I <3 her to death and I'll defend her from any of you who dare speak a bad word about her or throw an accusation at her again. She was also not a good example for your claim. In regards to Rim, Goose raised some issues with the nomination. He epitomized the democratic system that the clan survives with. Goose wasn't asking for Rim's head on a platter but merely saying he wanted to see Rim wait 2 or 3 weeks prior to a nomination so he could get to know the new members. I'm not going to type anymore about this as I put a really long post in Rim's thread and you can read it on your own if you want here -[link]- Rim also posted in that thread saying the clan wasn't what he was expecting which was why some of the members were hesitant with the rush to get him into the clan. I also don't believe that Rim qualifies to support your claim. nostie wrote ... Now neither Rim's deferance (thank you for the word), nor Wildcard's deferance do i see an attempt to get pity, but Kever (as well as other people's deferance) I see as this. Note: No offense is meant to any of the examples, especially Kever who i completely ripped on in that last paragraph. I hope you accept this is as a form of criticism Kever, instead of dislike. You are talking about "other people's deferance" as a form of pity. In no way shape or form does kever even remotely qualify as seeking pity. You are way off base but you are entitled to your opinion. However, I advise you that your opinion is unjustified and bias. If you want to dissect why people are withdrawing from nominations then take a look at the comments you make either to and/or about them. Such as this one about Kever who has expressed interest in becoming a part of this community. Personally, if you made an unjustified and bias opinion about me while I was trying to join, I would rethink whether or not I want to be associated with you. You owe Kever an apology. Last thing that I'll touch on is other people withdrawing their nominations. Two come right to the top of my mind. Popufosho is the first and after he didn't get the necessary vote the first time, he still plays on FTC and he's awesome to be in game with. I <3 playing with him in game. His brother's little shit storm in the forums pissed me off and I say that because he directed some of his arguments toward me. However, I would still like to see Pop in FT provided that his brother wasn't going to be on playing under Pop's name with the tag. The second is Ninca. He received some feedback about potential camping and other stuff that people in the clan had issues with. He took the "no" vote at the moment and stayed active on the forums. He also is a ton of fun to play with now in game and I haven't seen any other issues during the little time I have been able to get on FTC. I hope he continues and I'll look forward to him wearing an FT tag as he will have earned it. Goose is right that every person is different and makes their own decisions during a vote or after a vote if they get in or don't get in. Those that choose to persevere after not getting in the 1st try and work harder to get in show us that they are the type of people we want in the clan. Edited Wed Mar 14 2007, 03:41PM |
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| nostie |
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Registered Member #185
Joined: Thu Mar 30 2006, 10:42PMPosts: 3167 |
It's inaccurate to say that I am biased, Wild... I'll be one of the first people waiting until Kever gets 30 posts, so I can nominate her. I'm just citing this as an example, because it seemed clear to me that Kever was seeking some form of 'pity', as I said. (this may not be the right word) Goose, I have small problems with our system, but I'm not looking to change it. I don't know why you brought shit up about Rim in here - all i was trying to talk about how defering one's vote was unnecessary, unless, of course, you don't want to be in the clan because of something that came up... But what I'm sensing in a lot of peoples vote threads is that they're being criticized, and they can't cope with it. I was one of the people standing by Rim to let the vote go through and see what happened - and if it didn't go through, oh well, we'll try in a few weeks and see if people like you as mostly everyone did before. I liked that analogy Pocky (the horse going through a snake pit to get to water) because it kind of shows that FT people going through a vote have to have criticisms thrown at them in order to get to the water (positive thing at the end) which would be FT membership. |
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| Wildcard23 |
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Registered Member #514
Joined: Wed Dec 20 2006, 06:33AM Posts: 1067 |
Let me try and take a stab at this. Are you saying that Kever was willing to leave not because she didn't want to see us fighting as a community but because she could exploit this opportunity to have people within the community feel bad for her in regards to treating her in a horrible manner for considering banning her from our server because she is better than a lot of other players in a computer game????? If this was your thinking then yes you are using the word pity correctly. However, if this is in fact the way you are thinking then you are dead wrong and it comes across to me as some far-fetched conspiracy theory. Which further makes me wonder why you can say she is looking for pity (which is your opinion and you are entitled to it irregardless of what other people think of it since it is your opinion) and then type in the same paragraph that you are waiting for her to hit 30 posts so you can nominate her. If you believe that she is looking for pity then why would you want to nominate her????? Edited Wed Mar 14 2007, 06:48PM |
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| BuBBLe GooSe |
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The Original MilfHunter
Registered Member #163
Joined: Mon Mar 06 2006, 02:24PM Posts: 1592 |
nostie wrote ... It's inaccurate to say that I am biased, Wild... I wish I still had my "Nostie Sez" Sig... nostie wrote ... I'll be one of the first people waiting until Kever gets 30 posts, so I can nominate her. I'm just citing this as an example, because it seemed clear to me that Kever was seeking some form of 'pity', as I said. (this may not be the right word) Kever seeking pity = bogus claim. Read the responses in this thread.
The way Kever 'coped with criticism' the first time was offer to stop playing with us. Nostie, why would you criticize her here and in a thread that 100% does not concern her? Why are you upset at criticism of regulars/applicants yet you participate in it as shown by this clear hypoctitical contradiction? Nostie, you are something else and I'm amazed that time after time you persist to fail miserably. Why is it that most threads you start cause drama? nostie wrote ... I liked that analogy Pocky (the horse going through a snake pit to get to water) because it kind of shows that FT people going through a vote have to have criticisms thrown at them in order to get to the water (positive thing at the end) which would be FT membership. FT's with some concept of social awaremess (No Nostie, you are not included) only criticize in instances where comments are needed. Most votes pass with a high, sometimes 100%, approval rating. Any criticism that is posed is on the basis of the applicant's actions which makes it fair ground. The point of having democratic input is to safeguard against douches from getting in the clan. When was the last time someone said "I vote No because this person has a squeaky voice" or "because this person only uses the shotgun" or whatever. Most horses that are in FT walked through green pastures before reaching the water. There has been more criticism to suggest that it is too easy to get into FT. Open your other eye too! You are only choosing to see half of the picture. nostie wrote ... Goose, I have small problems with our system, but I'm not looking to change it. Why is this statement directed towards ME?? Any member can propose an amendment or a change. You choosing not to 'help make clan policy stronger' is nobody's fault except your own, so leave my name out of it. Have you seen Open proposals lately? In light of current events, I opened a brainstorm regarding 'small problems with our system' and the clan is looking to change the problems into positives. nostie wrote ... I don't know why you brought shit up about Rim in here - all i was trying to talk about how defering one's vote was unnecessary, unless, of course, you don't want to be in the clan because of something that came up... THE FIRST LINE THAT NOSITE WROTE IN THIS THREAD.... nostie wrote ... Recently i've seen that not only in failing votes, but in winning votes (Rim as a prime example) people are choosing to withdrawl their will to become a clan member. Are you seriously that dense? Honestly. I'm not poking fun at you but did you not see that coming? I know that you take AP (advanced placement) courses so an oversight of this magnitude makes many of us wonder why you are placing "blame" on me for commenting on the 'prime example' you suggested. nostie wrote ... But what I'm sensing in a lot of peoples vote threads is that they're being criticized, and they can't cope with it. Again, people have the freedom to voice their views regarding who is let into the clan. Majority has say. The criticism that is placed on applicants is usually followed up by long paragraphs justifying the grounds behind the initial critisizm. If applicants can't 'cope' with the ramifications of their actions, then how is that the community's fault? (Kever's previous situation does not lend itself to be classified in this manner.) Citing a relevant example; people criticised Ninca for his CT spawn camping... nobody forced him to camp, his actions were his own and the community preferred to turn down his application at that time. Without criticizing potential members, anyone who posts saying 'I wanna be in' will then be in, if we are unable to object. nostie wrote ... I was one of the people standing by Rim to let the vote go through and see what happened - and if it didn't go through, oh well, we'll try in a few weeks and see if people like you as mostly everyone did before. Everyone would prefer to see the vote take its 6 day course, myself included. Nobody asked Rim to withdraw his application. Had he spent some time in the Community and saw the democratic system work and got to know everyone prior to having a nomination, he may have saw that FT wasn't what he had hoped for, he may not have even asked for a nomination at all. I know that you have a personal beef with me Nosite. You have told me so over Xfire. You blamed me for somehow having your OP status on Surf stripped. I did nothing of the sort. Surfers complained about you and Krem acted accordingly. You place blame on me for you losing admin on FTC when infact, Alex, Fetus, Omni and myself were all in complete agreement that it was a necessary measure. You didn't like my Sig full of your quotes, but it was public knowledge anyway. You continue to try to cast false blame on me and you try to discredit me by using bogus claims. I said that Rim wasn't a good fit for FT, his resignation confirmed that. You publically gave support for Rim while withholding information from the community such as... [01:34] [FT].:BuBBLe GooSe:.: you do realize that he only wants to be associated with FT for the connecton count for his server, right? [01:35] Nostie: i persuaded him for that reason You persuade Rim to be associated with FT because it will help out his server, which was one of my key objections to him in the first place, yet you don't want to own up to your comments and would rather not be called out for it. You give Rim truck loads of credit for his really old contributions, yet you made every admin on Surf re-apply for their positions? What happened to consistency? Surf admins should not have had to re-apply, because you gauge people on their past merits, right? You are the two-faced one here. I've always been honest with how I feel, long before last Spring or ever finding fishtankclan .com. I've got nothing to hide and I have embraced change as my questionnable actions in the past are well noted. You Nostie, are like the Fox News Channel the way you try to plant the seeds of doubt regarding what I say. Ask Alex about our various disagreements on forums, back in the day.(Fun Times.  ) I have absolutely no problem being quoted from an Xfire convo because I don't say things in private that I'm not willing to say publically or directly to a person. Your constant cheap shots like...nostie wrote ... Always Ends up Goose, Fetus, and A Drunk throwing shots at the outsider. Getting tiring. What I'm getting tired of is having to defend myself from your bogus one-liners. Notice that the fallout of the Rim debate, where I was the most vocal for the No side, but it prompted me to start a thread, "Brainstorm, Easy as 1,2,3" whereby we as a community have seen an issue that needs to be addressed, and we are addressing it for the good of the future. Notice that the fallout from the Racism dabate, where Nostie was the most vocal in favor of his views, prompted him to start a thread, "FT rules?" where he tried to change the rules of the clan to save his own ass. Start by working on your own faults before coming after other people. Don't maliciously mention my name for the sake of discrediting me based on 'citing solid explamples' as you did in this thread. Notice that Wild and I pointed out the Popufosho nom, which works towards your argument, but you prefered to mention Kever, because of my previous stance on that issue. As I said before Nostie, I am completely indifferent towards you and I'd appreciate it if you refrained from mentioning my name with the intent to offend. Edited Wed Mar 14 2007, 10:24PM |
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| nostie |
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Registered Member #185
Joined: Thu Mar 30 2006, 10:42PM Posts: 3167 |
BuBBLe GooSe wrote ... Example number 17,241 of you taking my shit out of context. I meant that i was unbiased about the Kever issue.nostie wrote ... It's inaccurate to say that I am biased, Wild... I wish I still had my "Nostie Sez" Sig... BuBBLe GooSe wrote ... I disagree. Kever's response to the thread was "Please, just lock this thread and ban me. I don't wanna anymore. nostie wrote ... I'll be one of the first people waiting until Kever gets 30 posts, so I can nominate her. I'm just citing this as an example, because it seemed clear to me that Kever was seeking some form of 'pity', as I said. (this may not be the right word) Kever seeking pity = bogus claim. Read the responses in this thread.  "I think that since Kever is still playing on the server, she didn't truly want to be banned, and that (in my mind) means that this statement was meant to serve some other purpose (pity?) [blockquote] nostie wrote ... But what I'm sensing in a lot of peoples vote threads is that they're being criticized, and they can't cope with it. BuBBLe GooSe wrote ... You've got me 100% wrong here. I welcome the criticism of regulars/applicants. I think that they should, instead of running from it, welcome the criticism as well, and try to improve on what people don't like.nostie wrote ... [/blockquote]Note: No offense is meant to any of the examples, especially Kever who i completely ripped on in that last paragraph. I hope you accept this is as a form of criticism Kever, instead of dislike. The way Kever 'coped with criticism' the first time was offer to stop playing with us. Nostie, why would you criticize her here and in a thread that 100% does not concern her? Why are you upset at criticism of regulars/applicants yet you participate in it as shown by this clear hypoctitical contradiction? Nostie, you are something else and I'm amazed that time after time you persist to fail miserably. Why is it that most threads you start cause drama? BuBBLe GooSe wrote ... Not a bad point. I am one of those people who have agreed it's too easy for people to get into FT, and that more criticism of people should be shared instead of withheld.Most horses that are in FT walked through green pastures before reaching the water. There has been more criticism to suggest that it is too easy to get into FT. Open your other eye too! You are only choosing to see half of the picture. BuBBLe GooSe wrote ... By "brought shit up about Rim in here", i meant shit that had nothing to do with this topic (the last paragraph of your post prior to the one I'm quoting)nostie wrote ... I don't know why you brought shit up about Rim in here - all i was trying to talk about how defering one's vote was unnecessary, unless, of course, you don't want to be in the clan because of something that came up... THE FIRST LINE THAT NOSITE WROTE IN THIS THREAD.... BuBBLe GooSe wrote ... Again, people have the freedom to voice their views regarding who is let into the clan. Majority has say. The criticism that is placed on applicants is usually followed up by long paragraphs justifying the grounds behind the initial critisizm. If applicants can't 'cope' with the ramifications of their actions, then how is that the community's fault? (Kever's previous situation does not lend itself to be classified in this manner.) Citing a relevant example; people criticised Ninca for his CT spawn camping... nobody forced him to camp, his actions were his own and the community preferred to turn down his application at that time. Without criticizing potential members, anyone who posts saying 'I wanna be in' will then be in, if we are unable to object. And again, I agree. (explained above) BuBBLe GooSe wrote ... You publically gave support for Rim while withholding information from the community such as... [01:34] [FT].:BuBBLe GooSe:.: you do realize that he only wants to be associated with FT for the connecton count for his server, right? [01:35] Nostie: i persuaded him for that reason You persuade Rim to be associated with FT because it will help out his server, which was one of my key objections to him in the first place, yet you don't want to own up to your comments and would rather not be called out for it. You give Rim truck loads of credit for his really old contributions, yet you made every admin on Surf re-apply for their positions? What happened to consistency? Surf admins should not have had to re-apply, because you gauge people on their past merits, right? You are the two-faced one here. I've always been honest with how I feel, long before last Spring or ever finding fishtankclan .com. I've got nothing to hide and I have embraced change as my questionnable actions in the past are well noted. You Nostie, are like the Fox News Channel the way you try to plant the seeds of doubt regarding what I say. Ask Alex about our various disagreements on forums, back in the day.(Fun Times. ) I have absolutely no problem being quoted from an Xfire convo because I don't say things in private that I'm not willing to say publically or directly to a person. Your constant cheap shots like...[/quote1173993216] I, as MANY OTHER PEOPLE, encouraged Rim to bring the server up under FT, for the good of FT, and because population, i knew, would be a problem if FT was not there to stock it up. I don't have much problem with you bringing the xfire shit, but the fact that you gave me your personal guarantee is dishonorable in my view. BuBBLe GooSe wrote ... Well, as above, you've seen me wrong. I made that thread to see if people wanted it so that there were more rules in FT, so that my publically stated opinions could be used against me. I know that documents such as the U.S. constitution are praised for being vague, so that interpretation is up to the people living at the time, but I'm all for making rules plain-to-see.nostie wrote ... Always Ends up Goose, Fetus, and A Drunk throwing shots at the outsider. Getting tiring. What I'm getting tired of is having to defend myself from your bogus one-liners. Notice that the fallout of the Rim debate, where I was the most vocal for the No side, but it prompted me to start a thread, "Brainstorm, Easy as 1,2,3" whereby we as a community have seen an issue that needs to be addressed, and we are addressing it for the good of the future. Notice that the fallout from the Racism dabate, where Nostie was the most vocal in favor of his views, prompted him to start a thread, "FT rules?" where he tried to change the rules of the clan to save his own ass. Start by working on your own faults before coming after other people. Don't maliciously mention my name for the sake of discrediting me based on 'citing solid explamples' as you did in this thread. Notice that Wild and I pointed out the Popufosho nom, which works towards your argument, but you prefered to mention Kever, because of my previous stance on that issue. As I said before Nostie, I am completely indifferent towards you and I'd appreciate it if you refrained from mentioning my name with the intent to offend. In any manner, I've done just what i criticized you for - getting off topic. You said "Start by working on your own faults before coming after other people." I was actually going to make a thread about that, because I saw it in myself as well. Someone once told me "It is easiest to see the faults in others which you yourself are guilty of"... I 100% agree. Well to stop myself from getting off topic, I'd like to bring up another example of deferance: Kalibur. A long LONG while back, Fetus put up a vote to have Kalibur kicked from FT. Kalibur, though he had the vote going in his favor, decided to resign instead of being criticized. I saw it as an attempt at pity, and whether it was or not... it worked. People said exactly what I'm saying now: that ducking and running instead of standing up to the criticizm was the wrong thing to do. Kalibur reconsidered and is still an FT member, but his deferance in the first place is what he had to get through. This post is getting too long. Nostie:out. Edited Thu Mar 15 2007, 09:45PM |
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| Wildcard23 |
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Registered Member #514
Joined: Wed Dec 20 2006, 06:33AM Posts: 1067 |
nostie wrote ... You said "Start by working on your own faults before coming after other people." I was actually going to make a thread about that, because I saw it in myself as well. Someone once told me "It is easiest to see the faults in others which you yourself are guilty of"... I 100% agree. Well to stop myself from getting off topic, I'd like to bring up another example of deferance: Kalibur. A long LONG while back, Fetus put up a vote to have Kalibur kicked from FT. Kalibur, though he had the vote going in his favor, decided to resign instead of being criticized. I saw it as an attempt at pity, and whether it was or not... it worked. People said exactly what I'm saying now: that ducking and running instead of standing up to the criticizm was the wrong thing to do. Kalibur reconsidered and is still an FT member, but his deferance in the first place is what he had to get through. This post is getting too long. Nostie:out. Wow. I'm sooooo glad that I bought stock in Alex's shovel business. My current stock must be worth millions. Thank you for consistently digging yourself into a deeper and deeper hole making my personal stock skyrocket. You go after Kever first which I've already said you were way off on but you are entitled to your own personal opinion no matter how wrong it is and everyone else knows it. Then you go after Goose. And now you are going after Kalibur. Holy f'in crap. How big is your mouth that you can consistently fit you entire foot in there all the time?? Are you seriously that freaking common sense stupid. Here's the new rule for Nostie. We're going to go back to kindergarten. Stop talking shit about other people or bringing anything up in regards to taking a shot at people when they have done nothing to you. Live and die by that new rule. One more thing. You talk about Kalibur in regards to a termination thread. You better watch out because your going to find yourself in a similar situtation shortly if you keep travelling this path. |
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| nostie |
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Registered Member #185
Joined: Thu Mar 30 2006, 10:42PM Posts: 3167 |
I'm not trying to talk shit about people; I'm criticizing their actions... (damn, as i write these i just know Goose is going to come around and quote me lol... i phrase things too quickly) This is the same shit that happens during SOME nomination threads. What is wrong with citing examples?! Edited Fri Mar 16 2007, 01:26AM | ||
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