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| havok |
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Havok
Registered Member #442
Joined: Thu Sep 28 2006, 06:41PMPosts: 115 |
Clan- A word to refer to a closely-knit group usually quite large and fiercely defensive of each other. Comes from the Clans of Scotland- who were blood relatives.[from urbandictionary.com , lol] I see arguments within the clan regularly. We are here to be a clan. We are a group of e-friends that have come together for one purpose which is CSS. Lets play some fucking css and have a good time working strats and tactics out within the clan so each of us can get better. Everybody admit your fuckups and move on. Aws you're a great admin but if AP doesn't give it back, prove to him you deserve it back. Things are simple as that. Now lets all act like a clan. |
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| alcosatz |
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FT Classic Op
Registered Member #39
Joined: Fri Dec 02 2005, 10:30PMPosts: 1545 |
See how small the slider is on your vertical scrollbar? Yeah, this is a long post: read at your own peril. AwsedreswA wrote ... I guess the title should have been "aws is no longer admin," but that is long. I'm not leaving FT, its just that I am having my admin taken off in FTC because when I played with AP he said teams are unbalanced and that it is my fault by my inaction. He must be right, he can't be wrong about the procedings of his server. He asked for admins to do their job and balance teams, so I switched to CT. Then he said it again. I thought it was going back and forth with T/CT victories, but again, AP cant be wrong in this sense, so I swtiched to T thinking he meant T was weak. Then he said teams needed balance again and I went back to CT as he was leaving in a huff. I x-fired him that I was confused and doing what I could to help. He said "remind me to take away your admin priviledges because you are useless," and so I did so by way of this thread. I can't be wrong in this sense? No, but I can be persistent and I can be frustrated that you think moving yourself, with your .5 KDR, over to ANY team would have much of an impact. Quite the opposite effect can occur when moving a .5 KDR player to the losing team. I also asked you to "do your job" last Saturday night too. You told me you don't do anything about teams then and that was a stunning show of wisdom saying that to me. I was under the impression that you still didn't want to take a serious role in team balance and decided to relieve you of your privileges when you reinforced your obligation to sitting on the sidelines, letting other admins shoulder the responsibilty. Team balance has been mentioned many times during the existance of FT Classic. Why do you make it sound like I sprung this shit on people last week? AwsedreswA wrote ... Not too sure why AP can't balance the teams as he sees fit, I usually don't try to balance unless non-admin players make the request. This is like when you're over at a friend's house and there are lots of people over drinking. The trash can is full of empties and it wouldn't surprise me if you're the type of person that glances to make sure no one is looking and just starts setting yours on the floor. Why offer to take out the trash when you can just ignore the problem? Or... you could chip in and do something. Hell, maybe even before it gets full you let the host know you're 'on the motherfucker' and the problem will be taken care of. I have a hard time believing many longtime FT Classic regs/admins who can say that I, and several other admins, have not done a thorough jobs of doling out cash and health, as well as swapping people around for the benefit of keeping the server full. AwsedreswA wrote ... I never could give money or health, all I could do is switch people. Everytime I did I got bitched at by the one switchd and they immediately try to go back. I get bitched at from time to time as well yet I still swap people. By your logic, if there is a negative consequence (people complaining about you) to an action (swapping them) then do not engage in that action because the negative consequence will fall back squarely on your shoulders. However, if responsibility for a negative consequence can not be assigned to you, i.e. you don't lift a finger to balance teams well... you don't have anything to worry about because the problem belongs to anyone but you. But this is under the assumption that you even see stacked teams a problem. Look, I understand that there will be resistance to swappage. I even understand that I have made some incredibly bad swaps that blew up in my face, but I can honestly say that it's worth the effort. AwsedreswA wrote ... Whenever my team is getting beat I try harder, learning from mistakes, and coaxing my team to work as just that, a team. If teams were always balanced then poor players would have no reason to perform better. No one would ever say, "my team is getting owned I need to man up." That's an interesting concept. What happens when you get intentionally TK'd? Do you "man up" and realize these things are going to happen? Do you coax your teammate to not kill you anymore? What happens when someone kills you a few times, quits (and TK counter for mani resets), comes back, kills you a few more times... do you "man up" even harder? Probably not. Unless "man up" means you use your (former) admin privileges and resolve a problem by banning the perp. Would you do this if you saw another player as the recipient of repeated, intention TK'? I hope so. What if the person you ban posts on the forums saying you're a dick and you had no right to ban him? What justification would you use? Would you say something like: "You were making it shitty for a bunch of other players by TK'ing and you got an admin reaction which was a ban." Let's change that around a bit in the context of team balance. When you swap someone and they complain you could respond with: "You were making it shitty for a bunch of other players that had lost several rounds in a row and you got an admin reaction which was a swap." It's not so hard to justify, especially when we have adverts that let players know they may be swapped at any time to enforce team balance. Does anyone read adverts anymore, or the MOTD rules for that matter? AwsedreswA wrote ... Add to this that AP had been in the game long enough to acrue about a 75:100 rec, while I had about a 12:25. When I joined there were many admins on and server close to full. I did take note that T was at about 300, and CT 220. However, my gameplay timeframe did not show a gross misbalance. When I got called out for not doing my job there were fewer members on and server less full. I guess I was the only admin in there, but I coulda swore there were others, including AP. Daily scores are a joke if you're using them as a a reference for how the teams have been. What the fuck does anyone care what has happened all day. People do not play all day, so don't use a win counter for the whole day. Fewer people on the server? Now why would that be so? Oh, right, maybe instead of them looking at a counter for the whole day they had vivid memories of the past 10 rounds, you know, when they were actually present and kept getting raped. Christ, I don't know how else to explain it... AwsedreswA wrote ... AP has said admins haven't balanced teams before. When he did I would speak up about it, probably the only one, and thus the only one to be at fault. AP gave no action himself for me to learn from besides switching to the losing team(which I learned from and do myself regularly). AP also did not provide a clearcut direction as to which side he felt teams were unbalanced. Explaining my action of going back and forth between teams. Though this action was ineffective because I was working with a .5 kdr at the time. Anyway, sorry for being useless. I would like my admin priviledges back, I can't votekick if Goose is sitting in spec. You already admitted you don't swap people last weekend as well as earlier this week. In fact, you apologized for it last weekend. It sounds like you already know what you should have been doing. I apologize for a hasty decision, and wish I had taken the time to explain why I feel your performance concerning team balance is so poor. The problem still remains that you have admittedly not taken an effective interest in team balance. If you're serious about being an admin for more of a reason than kicking other admins let me know. Moving on... DarkNarf wrote ... Fuck the Team balance. Just play the fucking game. I shouldn't be responcible for a teams shortcommings.. Thanks for sharing. You are relieved of your admin privileges as well. DarkNarf wrote ... And most of the time its not balance. Its an issue of teamwork. 90% of the players that join FTC are real good players, if they want to cry team balance. Let them handle it. You may know a few people that can effectively communicate a strategy, but most people just yell "rush garage" into the mic and think that fixes everything. I disagree that there is an even distribution of skilled players at most times and, unfortunately, based on the posts in this thread I have strong suspicion that most people couldn't care less. DarkNarf wrote ... The admins job it to make sure hackers, retards, idiots, and teamkillers don't disturb peoples play. TEAM BALANCE IS LEFT TO THE DROP OF THE DICE. ONE TEAM MIGHT WIN 5 rounds in a row, SO FUCKING WHAT!! IT wouldn't be a game if you win everytime. IT would be CALLED WINNING instead of Counter strike. "Don't disturb peoples play" can be interpreted in many ways, but thanks for going ahead letting everyone know what they should be doing. Mind if I state, as I have always stated, that team balance is also an FT Classic responsibility? Thanks. DarkNarf wrote ... You people just want something to cry about. Or someone to take your anger out on. Alex was drunk, Aws is hard headed. They had an argument. Shit happens. Aws isn't a terrible admin because he doesn't balance teams. Aws is an excelent admin. Thanks for sharing your opinion. He's an ineffective admin in my estimation as are several others. DarkNarf wrote ... I barley ever EVER EVER EVER EVER hafta balance the teams. because its not like t's or ct's ever win more than 5 rounds in a row with me playing. Wrong. Here's some data to look at: -[link]- That's a project I've been working on for a long time, and this issue of team balance is inspiring me to finish it. Some of the data is ambiguous, but check at the bottom for the winning team. Also, look at the top portion where "R: " is the number of rounds that the player has been around. See how all the T's at the top and have been playing for 20 or more rounds. Notice how most of the CT's, who have been losing pretty badly have less than 20 rounds? DarkNarf wrote ... Whoever thought up of this balancing rule has started a plague. After all its only 3 clicks to switch teams. This honestly made me laugh because it is such a ridiculous assertion. An admin attempting to balance teams by swapping or setting health/cash occurs because other players do not share your simple "3 click" logic. Hell, look at the data I supplied above about how well team balance works when no one admins are balancing the teams. DarkNarf wrote ... Why should i use my admin to make someone go to another team. WHY? tell me 1 good reason why balance is a REAL issue. its not. period. unless the whole server is noobs. And thats highly unlikely. If the majority of one team is frustrated by stacked teams then they tend to leave. Period. DarkNarf wrote ... If you can't afford a gun. Save your money. If you can't get in one way. don't rush in the same way next round. You people just like to cry. Everyone in this clan is a LIL BITCH if you think team balance is even needed. I agree with this, use the betting system and save up. However, consider that there are circumstances when this is not enough to keep people playing. Oh, and saying that everyone in this clan is a "LIL BITCH" when this is clearly an FT Classic admin issue... it just makes you sound like an idiot. Patio wrote ... i agree with parts of everyone, yes team balancing is an issue, sometimes it gets a little crazy, and im gonna say i blame it on the regs. when i see teams are unbalanced, i try and switch teams, see if i can help out. if that doesnt help i try and suggest to other players to switch to even it up, but a lot of the time, people dont want to switch because they want to be on his team, or her team, or its team. perfect examle, i jumped over to T the other day because CTs were dominating for like 3-4 rounds straight, but it was DOMINATION, Ts werent getting a single one of us. 2 rounds later, crazyassmonkey AND drunk jumped over to T to, from what i heard, play with me. now, yea, thats cool, i like playing with those two. hell i do the same thing some times with Devil, but i wont do it if teams will be unbalanced. so to some extent i believe its the admins job to maintain teams... HOWEVER, i also think its the communities job to help out. 80% of the people playing on the server every night IS a regular, and as a regular they should know to maintain the server. you dont have to be an admin to help... I agree that regs and FT's tend to stick together. This isn't necessarily a bad thing as there are not always good FT's around. I am definitely towards the bottom of the tank when it comes to skill but knowing who you're playing with (see Mugen's post below), yet not being skilled can still work work out. The rule on FTC has read for several weeks: We want a competitive environment and encourage players to balance teams themselves. Note: if players can't pay attention to balance teams on their own then admins may switch any player at any time. Admins also have the option of changing health, cash reserves, and any other resource to balance teams. -[link]- It's crazy to think that tactics are not employed especially when an admin is around. Most admins are fiesty "officers" and know what they're doing, so why should we say that we have to pick admin enforced team balance OR strategy? Why not do both? Actually, I think we already do. Patio wrote ... as for alex and awsedreswa, god i love typing his name for some reason... hah, i think alex over reacts sometimes. or even acts too soon. do defend awsedreswa, there it is again! SO MUCH JOY!, i think hes a great admin, he keeps it clean, and keeps it fun, he doesnt always balance the teams, but then again, i think teh only admin who REALLY does is you alex, so dont just punish awsedreswa... my 2 cents n im out! I definitely overreact sometimes. The issue with Awse was not handled in the best manner, but I still believe some punishment is in order for someone that admittedly doesn't do anything to fix teams. Yes, swapping yourself with a .5 KDR and not doing anything else isn't fixing teams. Keep in mind you can suppliment the losing team you join when you have a crap KDR... mugen_power wrote ... I agree with most of what half of you said. I agree with Narf. I played last week as CT, which i rarely play, but i seen T's were winning almost every round. I got on CT and noticed we started to get owned, and we got owned 7 rounds in a row. I thought lets try out strats, and most of the players on CT were up for it, i gave our team money, and kept trying different strats, after the 7 rounds, we figured out what to do and started owning T's round after round, and after that T's would win couple rounds, and CT's would win couple rounds. Awesome! You gave money and tried to organize your team. Admin intervention towards team balance mixed with some common sense. I love it. What if instead of giving cash you swapped a few players around and then put together a strategy? Is that not possible? Some people here think you have to pick one or the other... mugen_power wrote ... I think instead of swaping players around, its better for us to try out strats with one another, and im SURE that out of 10 players atleast 5-6 players will work it out with you. Ahhhh! Why do we have to pick one or the other?! mugen_power wrote ... If you can get atleast 4-5 players working out strats, your entire team will start to notice. Trust me it work. Ive played as T and have gotten owned many times, again decided to work out something with the team and guess what it worked. Ill admit i dont really balance team, if anything i would switch myself. Yeah, I've noticed a lot of people come up with creative ways to balance teams. I've never said that improvising strategy is a bad idea. I do not doubt that it worked in the instance that you describe. Because NOT swapping people worked for you in that instance can you say that admins swapping people around is ineffective? Also, what if you team DOESN'T start to notice that you're trying to organize strategy? Any contingency plan? mugen_power wrote ... Its better to get people used to working out strats, then always trying to swap around players, and always trying to give money. The only way i will give health is if my team or the other team is getting dominated 3-4 rounds in a row, without killing a single person on the other team. Balancing teams isnt the big issue's, its the fact that people are getting used to getting money and health, and dont see a reason to work out strats, Do you think it's fair that the other team doesn't use any apparent strategy and just seems to win because their are more skilled players on that team? Are you saying a team that wins with no strategy always deserves to win against a team that tries to use strategy? mugen_power wrote ... when they can constantly buy good guns. I dont see if fun in that. I personally think its fun when you actually try to bring your team back up from a losing streak. Then yes i would give money once, to see if we can do it. They cry about team balance, and you have to remind them, if needed in green talk, that they need to learn how to beat the other team and work out some sort of strats, each time ive done that, they seem to do it. I agree that it's fun to try to be the underdog and fight for your victory and beat the odds. However, if you keep trying and you fail what do you do? What if it's hard to keep people on the losing team (they keep quitting)? Oh no! Your team is cycling out because the teams blow and you're left with many fewer players than you had before. mugen_power wrote ... As for what nightrider that about the knifing situation. There was a topic on this before. And if your on a team thats getting owned, and you have knifers, warn them not to knife while gettin owned, and that they will be slayed if they continue it, yes i dont mind it if your team is winning, but not while getting owned. Ive seen it and ive warned many about it, and told them once the team is winning, i dont care if they knife. Yeah, those circumstances suck. There really isn't a rule that you have to work as a team and it seems very difficult to enforce. mugen_power wrote ... CT camper, just warn them, give them a slap, they their holding off a rush, you cant blame them, but if they arent, warn them 2-3 times, and give em a little slap, next round if they continue, i would warn them once, and if it continues, i would slay. Agreed. Give the CT camper a warning, but if you're on the stacked team then it seems like a joke to turn a blind eye to team balance. I guess a priority list of admin duties is needed. |
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| alcosatz |
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FT Classic Op
Registered Member #39
Joined: Fri Dec 02 2005, 10:30PM Posts: 1545 |
havok wrote ... Clan- A word to refer to a closely-knit group usually quite large and fiercely defensive of each other. Comes from the Clans of Scotland- who were blood relatives.[from urbandictionary.com , lol] I see arguments within the clan regularly. We are here to be a clan. We are a group of e-friends that have come together for one purpose which is CSS. Lets play some fucking css and have a good time working strats and tactics out within the clan so each of us can get better. Everybody admit your fuckups and move on. Aws you're a great admin but if AP doesn't give it back, prove to him you deserve it back. Things are simple as that. Now lets all act like a clan. Sorry for the double post, but I just spent a while on my last post and I'm going to plead laziness in not appending that to it. Let me state, very succinctly: this is not a clan issue. This is an admin issue among FTC admins which is why I moved it to the FTC forum. |
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| Knightrider |
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Meteor 2016
Registered Member #316
Joined: Mon Jun 26 2006, 09:14PMPosts: 3503 |
Since your the owner of the server Alcohol, I think you should have the honor in drafting up an admin system. I know that you dont want to take responsibility for it, but I want you to. Since this is so much confusion, like I said earlier, it should be a rule that admins balance teams. Man I just read all of that what you made with the data, holy shit. T's were kicking the shit out of them. That happened to me yestarday. Edited Fri Nov 10 2006, 03:50AM |
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| Amped |
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Hi
Registered Member #301
Joined: Thu Jun 15 2006, 01:55AMPosts: 888 |
My turn... Stacked teams ruin a game. That we've established. When I am playing incredibly poorly, I leave. When people on one team are getting beat on too badly, they leave. As admins, it's our job to make the server a "friendly environment" to play on. We're supposed to encourage people to play, not fuck them over because we're too lazy to balance the teams. To those who said that it is the fault of the team: If my fourth grade soccer team played against a bunch of Brazilian pros, we would lose. No matter how much strategy we came up with, how many different plays or tactics that should be effective, we would still lose. Sometimes you just can't win because you're not good enough. That's a fact. When the server is full, there is anywhere from 1 to four extremely good players on. Switching even one of them can make a massive difference in team balance. Yes, I said it. There is no huge re-arrangement of teams necessary. Switch one influential person, and a difference will be made. If they complain, fuck 'em. Like I said, our job is to make the server an enjoyable place for everyone. Not an enjoyable place for the players that think themselves to be better than everyone else in some way. I don't know about you all, but I'd much rather piss one person off to please everyone else than vice versa. It just makes sense. All of this is just common sense. Balance the fucking teams, stop arguing about it, you don't make the rules. I'm pretty sure Alex makes the rules because he...you know...owns the fucking server. You don't have to agree with the rule as an admin. But you have to enforce it. If it offends you so much to just balance the teams that you won't do it, give up your admin, I'm sure there are many eager to ask Alex to take your place. I am not saying here that I am a perfect admin. I am saying though, that I do what I can to balance the teams. Sometimes it takes me a round or two to figure out who I'll switch. Sometimes, if I'm shooting well, I'll switch myself to cope with the skew. If I suck though, I either ask someone I know to switch, or I just do it myself. The whole point of me typing this out? You don't make the server rules. You enforce them. |
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| alcosatz |
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FT Classic Op
Registered Member #39
Joined: Fri Dec 02 2005, 10:30PM Posts: 1545 |
Nightrider wrote ... Since your the owner of the server Alcohol, I think you should have the honor in drafting up an admin system. I know that you dont want to take responsibility for it, but I want you to. Typo, insult, or cocksmithery? You be the judge of what this statement means! Nightrider wrote ... Man I just read all of that what you made with the data, holy shit. T's were kicking the shit out of them. That happened to me yestarday. It happens every day. People like darknarf want you to suck it up. I don't. |
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| AwsedreswA |
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Registered Member #223
Joined: Wed Apr 26 2006, 10:53PMPosts: 126 |
Is there a record for the number of words typed in response to a thread, if there is this one has got to be close.  Lets close this thread, and I suggest Alex open a new thread involving a discussion about team balance to help put the clan on the same page. Bottom line is this, I don't do much at all to balance teams besides switching which team I'm on. The long awaited reason can be summed up in this.... "That government is best which governs the least" --Henry David Thoreau The less an admin does to alter the game-play experience the better, no one likes it when there is someone being "admin happy." In fact the first 2 admin rules in motd seem to support this philosophy. --Keep the atmosphere on the server friendly and competitive. Give players a reason to come back. How would you like it if you die saving money by buying nothing, only to have the admin give out 16k. Yeah the 16k is nice, but kinda fucks the guy using the strat of saving money. The admin swapping players on top of slaying campers, giving out health/money, and kicking afk, makes it look like there is too much governing going on. This is why I put team balance on the bottom of the list of admin priorities, dead last actually. AFK, team-killers, campers, hackers, people not being respectful, that shit matters (which is pretty much what Darknarf said, in his own elequent way). "That team is better than this team," is a subjective determination, specially if you make it after 4 rounds. Ever seen data on how many times straight a coin flip can end up heads or tails? (Tell me that one isn't balaned, and you better not say it's unbalanced because Washington's forehead is more airo-dynamic than the eagle) And yes, I think the issue of team balance is a matter of perception and subject to the individual's concept of fairness. I also think that this perception of unbalance is clouded by a natural tendancy of CS:S to favor the camper over the agressor Lets look at the link, alexh gave us for some stats. I guess this is meant to show a lack of balance, but its not clear and the sample is small (20 rounds/one day) if I'm reading it correctly. So lets get a larger sample, lets take the top 10 people with over 200 hours of play and see their ratio of CT wins:T wins, as well as the team they join...... --Taken 4am 11-10-06 #2 3 stripe ninja 2,828:3,286 (.86) Joined CT:T 273:272 (1) #7 AirborneAggie 1,522:3,895 (.39) Joined CT:T 146:300 (.48) #10 [FT] Devil[executor] 4,491:3,181 (1.41) Joined CT:T 317:280 (1.13) #15 [FT]Jak3th3snak3 2,027:3,446 (.58) Joined CT:T 249:258 (.96) #19 [FTA] Absolutely Nothing 4,926:4,969 (.99) Joined CT:T 1,052:915 (1.14) #22 (.)(.)'s from atlantic city 4,383:8,629 (.50) Joined CT:T 1,003:1,481 (.67) #23 Bo0mHeAdshOt 4,387:4,756 (.92) Joined CT:T 683:633 (1.07) #30 Omni 1,525: 3,759 (.40) Joined CT:T 288:532 (.54) #34 zooted 1,289:5,262 (.24) Joined CT:T 278:760 (.36) #38 Jihad Joe 925:5,147 (.17) Joined CT:T 146:318 (.45) 9 out of 10 of these players win more on T side. Some 2 to 5 times more often. They do, however, tend to join the side they win more also, but not near the same ratios as their victories. Notice that the join ratio is more often closer than the win ratio is, to being a balanced 1. This strengthens the idea that one is more likely to win on the T side, regardless of the frequency they join on the T side. So does this mean that FTC teams tend to be unbalanced in a way that hurts CT on a regular basis? Or does this show which side is simply given an advantage, regardless of who is on which team? I think it is the latter; T gets the advantage of being able to camp and be quiet, while CT has the job of rescueing the hostages (making noise in the process). Along with the camp advantage comes the ease of teamwork advantage. If T is camping, they are likely camping together, while CT might not have the slightest bit of organization and be meeting T in a 1 on 2 battle one CT at a time. Ever notice the opposite on a de server where the roles are reversed and T has the job of being the agressor while CT can camp? The only way to counter this tendency is to communicate and act as a team. The rules on the website state that the admin is REQUIRED to balance teams to the point that 4 victories in a row constitute an unbalance; I failed to meat the expectations the server-op has of admins to balance teams. I have been punished accordingly. |
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| Pockyninja |
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Ruler of all that is pocky
Registered Member #28
Joined: Mon Nov 28 2005, 11:17PMPosts: 704 |
Man alex that is a nice little tool there with the records of ct and T winning the game and deaths and kills. That would defnatly be a usefull and cool mod. Yeh that looks like a good time to use balancing lol. Just one thing while KD ratio can give you osme insight into a player skill it isnt always the best. I see some player who are great but always love to play the under dog so they end up getting mamed. (I used to do that a lot). Also I see a lot of peopel who I know can fight mess around (sometimes huting the team like knifing) which kills their ratio. I am not justifying that he is a good enough player to balance the team just saying that it isnt always 100% good to juge by. |
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| BuBBLe GooSe |
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The Original MilfHunter
Registered Member #163
Joined: Mon Mar 06 2006, 02:24PMPosts: 1592 |
After reading all of the posts in this thread a few times, I'll chime in here quickly to add a few things. I find it difficult to argue the points made by Fetus, Nightrider, Amped, Alex and a few others, so this is why I am perplexed that some would even try. I'll see if I can add some things that may not have already been said... AwsedreswA wrote ... Lets close this thread, and I suggest Alex open a new thread involving a discussion about team balance to help put the clan on the same page. Not a clan issue. FT's cannot vote on this. Server issue regarding admin responsabilities. This thread which is already open will do fine. AwsedreswA wrote ... "That government is best which governs the least" --Henry David Thoreau The FT clan is ruled by a democracy, take a wild guess as to which way servers are run... (Ask yourself how much $$$ you pay a month before answering.) AwsedreswA wrote ... The less an admin does to alter the game-play experience the better, no one likes it when there is someone being "admin happy." In fact the first 2 admin rules in motd seem to support this philosophy. --Keep the atmosphere on the server friendly and competitive. Give players a reason to come back. Focus on the second point then re-evaluate your comment. It begins by saying, "Use power sparingly..." it doesn't say "Refrain from using admin power in every instance" nor does it say "Admins can do whatever the fuck they want to". If used when appropriate, then that is the opposite of being 'admin happy', as you put it. AwsedreswA wrote ... How would you like it if you die saving money by buying nothing, only to have the admin give out 16k. Yeah the 16k is nice, but kinda fucks the guy using the strat of saving money. No it doesn't. The guy saving money got what he wanted, $$$, and probably more than the bit he tried saving. Notice players that are on the losing team might request money because they are getting raped? Notice that when you give money to a losing team (without a request), the players will respond with a "TY". Nobody has ever told me to fuck off after I gave their team cash. If you are so adament about this cash issue, why have you not boycotted the guesture in the past? When an admin gives you money, do you use it or do you refrain from such and consider it a slap in the face to your miser cash saving technique? AwsedreswA wrote ... The admin swapping players on top of slaying campers, giving out health/money, and kicking afk, makes it look like there is too much governing going on.........AFK, team-killers, campers, hackers, people not being respectful, that shit matters (which is pretty much what Darknarf said, in his own elequent way). So swapping and giving cash/health makes it look like there is too much going on? That's the only difference between your 2 statements. Guess what, AFKs, TKers, campers, 'hackers', etc by no means take up all of the admin's attention on every round. If you ask me, Stacked teams occur far more frequently then "hackers, AFK's, TKers, etc" and unstacking teams takes the same amount of effort as kicking an AFK. AwsedreswA wrote ... "That team is better than this team," is a subjective determination, specially if you make it after 4 rounds. Look at the objective facts then. Press TAB and compare Kill to Death ratios. Is that subjective too? Take note of how many kills the losing team got. All 10 players on the losing team are dead, only 0/1/2 players on the winning team are dead,,, for 4 rounds in a row. Still subjective? AwsedreswA wrote ... Ever seen data on how many times straight a coin flip can end up heads or tails? (Tell me that one isn't balaned, and you better not say it's unbalanced because Washington's forehead is more airo-dynamic than the eagle) The 'coin' is unbalanced. The team with the better players has a better chance of winning. Welcome to CS noob! The point of balancing teams is because every round is not like a random flip of the coin. If you can't see that, then go 1 vs 1 with somebody better than you and see how many times you win out of 100 rounds then come back here and let us know how many times the Eagle(player better then you) shit on your aerodynamic forehead. Odds are, if you are getting raped, you won't stick around for 100 rounds. Extrapolate that with reference to FTC. Take your 1vs1, multiply both sides by 10 respectively, now you got a 20 person server. How many rounds of rapage will it take for a person to leave the server? If balancing the teams (cash/health/swap) can prevent people from getting raped and leaving, what is so hard to understand? AwsedreswA wrote ... And yes, I think the issue of team balance is a matter of perception and subject to the individual's concept of fairness. I also think that this perception of unbalance is clouded by a natural tendancy of CS:S to favor the camper over the agressor Ballsack. The natural tendancy of CS:S is to favor the team that has more skilled players. I think camping is a disagvantage. You start off in a corner with your back to the wall, waiting for the perfectly placed grenade, (flashbang or frag) that could take out the whole team. The CT has the element of surprise and mobility. The camper has to wait for the agressor, aka eagle, to fly and shit on your forehead before you have a chance at defending yourself. Camping is just that, defending. Whether you defend a bombsite or defend the hostages, you are in a defensive position. Regardless, both views are subjective, just don't be so arrogant as to assume that your level of subjectivity is supreme. In Conclusion: Try going onto the surf forums and say "The spawn attack rule is bogus". Same deal. The server based rules have been put in place for the same reasons. Recall a time not all that long ago, say Spring time, when FTC would be empty at peak hours and such. Recall what was happening at that time? A similar discussion was occuring whereby the CT side was stacked thus causing T's to leave the server and the server would empty out. (Check FTC archives if you don't believe me) Balancing teams is paramount in keeping players on the server and having them return. Nobody wants to walk onto a server and get destroyed while admins sit idly by with the power to do something, yet they opt not to out of laziness and ignorance/arrogance. Its been a long road to build the pleasent, competative, fair and fun environment that is FTC and many people (myself included) do not appreciate the shit flinging just because someone is mad that they weren't doing their job and lost admin privs. There is no discussion here. Do your job or step aside and take on the point of view of a regular. Clearly that decision was already made. Teambalancing/unstacking/promoting a fun and competative atmosphere has always been a part of the FTC motto. If anyone is content with team stacking and disrupting other people's gameplay with this douchery, then join myg0t and download some hacks because that ain't how we do things here sugar. Edited Fri Nov 10 2006, 06:19PM |
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Meteor 2016
Registered Member #316
Joined: Mon Jun 26 2006, 09:14PM Posts: 3503 |
No alcohol I did not mean that as an insult. I was thinking of it the same way as you had not wanted the responsibility of the voting system because you dont look at yourself as a good leader. It was not intended to insult (Sorry if you took it that way, perhaps I should have worded it differently). -[link]- Narf, and Awse, you should have read these rules. It says in it specifically that you should swap players to keep the teams balanced. You two are respected players by me, and I didnt want to see all of this happening. But those are the rules, they are a requirement. That means, if you are not swapping, you are violating admin policy, and now I can definetely see Alcohol's reason why. Its not a matter of what you think, its FT's priority, to make it fun for others. |
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