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| The Fate Of Kever | ||
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| aborted fetus |
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The All-Cum Diet
Registered Member #47
Joined: Mon Dec 05 2005, 04:55PMPosts: 1888 |
BuBBLe GooSe wrote ... Fuck it, after 11 months of admining on FTC, you consider a dropped weapon 'abuse' then whatever. I do consider you giving yourself (and only yourself) weapons at round start admin abuse. That is outright cheating. |
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| BuBBLe GooSe |
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The Original MilfHunter
Registered Member #163
Joined: Mon Mar 06 2006, 02:24PMPosts: 1592 |
Whenever I join I always go to the losing side and effectively if the round already starts before I can join a team, I'll have $800. I figure that it wouldn't be fair to give cash out to anyone given I just joined and I don't know the round history. If it was a slaughter and I join the slaughtered team, sure I'll toss myself a $2750 scout and that only happens 2-3 times a month. I figure that the rest of my losing team has at least $3000 anyways so I'm not putting myself at any advantage but I am helping with team balance ever so slightly. Does anyone else have any problems with me, cuz clearly this is the place to put it because I'm soo shitty at being an admin... "[05:17] Aborted Fetus: sit in the fence and you lose..." |
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| O_Mega |
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Inconsistant Ownage Device
Registered Member #59
Joined: Sat Dec 10 2005, 06:12PMPosts: 1058 |
I know the feeling goose, personally I dont think you giving your self a scout compleatly unbalances the game and leads to a terrible environment to play in, and I thought, over all this, thats what we are trying to avoid. I though our job was to provide an atmosphere where people can just play and get along with the game. I find it odd that all our debates seem to circle around a few people, not the mass of the community speaking out against things they dont like. I understand what you were trying to say and didnt take it personally, I know I do things as admin I shouldnt, and Id be amazed to find an admin that doesnt. The tag thing just baffled me as everyone still knew it was me, and i usually wore the FT tag with it, but w/e its in the past. I think the FTC admins do an excellent job keeping FTC running, and its the admins putting in the hours day in and day out that keep people here, not endless forum posts and pointless bickering. kinda lost where i was going with all this but ill just say that I think admins do a great job and none of this is really helping, the shitslinging and the insults dont help the FT community. I think the admins should just be able to get on with their jobs and if the members have a problem they will let it be known. | ||
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| nostie |
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Registered Member #185
Joined: Thu Mar 30 2006, 10:42PMPosts: 3167 |
BuBBLe GooSe wrote ... Nostie: If "saying "h4x" is not a huge deal", then why did we even bother with this thread? I think that the line of reasoning was logical, it was the execution that came up short. I'm not sure. people accusing kever of hacking, to me, isn't a huge-fucking deal. Alex has already said it was a mistake to make this thread... Not much else to say... |
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| emerican |
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Registered Member #164
Joined: Tue Mar 07 2006, 12:07PMPosts: 3146 |
according to rules there needs to be evident proof of hacking. without this proof then no ban should be given out | ||
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| bleek |
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#woo
Registered Member #23
Joined: Fri Nov 25 2005, 11:39PMPosts: 665 |
emerican wrote ... according to rules there needs to be evident proof of hacking. without this proof then no ban should be given out ...this debate wasnt about hacking x.x |
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| gLiTch |
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Anal Assassin
Registered Member #455
Joined: Mon Oct 09 2006, 04:58AMPosts: 3848 |
I think ppl are just posting in here now to reach 100 posts in the thread. SO here it goes. SPAM 1 |
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| alcosatz |
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FT Classic Op
Registered Member #39
Joined: Fri Dec 02 2005, 10:30PMPosts: 1545 |
BuBBLe GooSe wrote ... Alcohol-Powered wrote ... Of course you want the thread to die -- you got what you wanted so fuck everyone else, right? Noooo, I thought the vote was over and all of the discussion pertaining to Kever was over too. People are hijacking the thread to talk about Steel which is slightly off-track. Wouldn't you agree? "Fuck everyone else"? Rofl, I'm sure everyone who wanted to had the opportunity to discuss Kever's situation while the vote was active and like Bleek mentioned, its time to make closing remarks and peace and leave the arguing for another day. You want to continue the discussion so fine, I'll bite. I was saying you couldn't care less what anyone else has to say simply because you're done with the thread. That's convenient for you, but I'm not done. BuBBLe GooSe wrote ... Alcohol-Powered wrote ... I'm disappointed that your solution was to choose the path of least resistance, and even though your goal of getting Kever banned was not accomplished, the amount of controversy may be enough to prevent her from choosing to play on FTC again. Noooo, it was your choice to go through with the forum voteban. Remember when we discussed this on X-fire a few nights ago, I offered 2 compromises to the situation. The first compromise was this voteban thread, the second compromise was the 'path of least resistence' which you didn't take. For the record, my second compromise was that I would swallow my pride knowing that after a 3 hour X-fire convo that the server owner knows of my objections to Kever and all I asked for was a saying or phrase that I could bind to a key and use whenever Kever played and people complained. Compromise 2 was the path of least resistance which YOU didn't want and which instantly came off the table when you started this thread. I offered peace, you asked for war, so I put on my boots. As you stated earlier in this thread: BuBBLe GooSe wrote ... Many of you noted in this thread that when someone calls Kever a hacker, a response of "Kever is legit so deal with it and stfu" or whatever could be offered by admins?!. Good luck, I ain't vouching for something that controversial and sketchy. Based on your inability to acknowledge your admin abuse, abuse which you seem to feel entitled to drop on rule-abiding regulars, I could tell that your second compromise would not work. How did I know? Because you flipped your shit when I told you that Kever asked me on Sunday afternoon why she kept dropping her gun, I looked at the logs, and told her it was you who was running the command. What should I have done? Completely ignored her? Pretend I don't have an obligation to try to resolve issues between regulars and admins? I have no idea how you are able to say "I ain't vouching for something that controversial and sketchy," and "I could bind to a key and use whenever Kever played and people complained" in the same thread. I believe when you say "I ain't vouching" because that's what I walked away with from last Monday's Xfire conversation: you abused regulars (it was actually not just Kever that you cexec'd 'drop' on, see below), refused to acknowledge it as abuse, and then suggested we get rid of the target of your abuse. Also, I disagree that your second compromise was the easy way out. You started this thread with: BuBBLe GooSe wrote ... 1. It pisses me off when FT's, Regulars and Newcomers constantly claim "Hacker, ban Kever" and as an admin, there's nothing that can be done because the demos that were provided were 'inconclusive' based on solely Alex's opinion. This indicates to me, as did our xfire conversation prior to even discussing a solution last Monday, that you would not accept your second compromise of just making a bind. You gave up trying handle a problem because there was no way you were "vouching for something that controversial and sketchy." Refusing to speak up on behalf of one regular and abusing that regular and a few others to somehow appease other players on the server is a half-assed way of solving a problem to begin with. Saying "nothing can be done..." except ban her is THE EASY WAY OUT. BuBBLe GooSe wrote ... Alcohol-Powered wrote ... I truly hope you consider the consequences of your logic. I offered 2 logical compromises. The car was behind door #2, you chose the 'mystery box' and got opera tickets. I feel no regret or remourse because my logic is sound. Logical: See a problem, try to fix it. Illogical: See a problem, ignore it and hope it goes away. Yup, logic agrees with me and I with it, we are... Ignoring the problem is banning skilled players and hoping the problem goes away. You chose a temporary solution to a problem that has every possibility of occuring tomorrow. If more skilled players show up, well ban them to and keep running away from a real solution. You fail to consider the consequences when your solution to this problem must be applied to multiple players like Kever, and not just her. Your solution only satisfies an immediate need and encourages intolerance of skilled players later on. Please read what I am saying carefully -- I am agreeing that your solution would solve the immediate problem. BuBBLe GooSe wrote ... Alcohol-Powered wrote ... Unfortunately the only person I can ultimately blame for this is myself. I agreed to this "compromise" of having a referendum on whether Kever should be banned upon your suggestion. Damn straight its your fault. You shoulda taken Compromise #2 and given me a phrase that I could have bound to a key and pressed whenever someone complained about Kever. I'm not thinking of something on my own because I have some integrity and would rather eliminate the problem then try to deal with it. I presented Compromise #2 knowing that it wouldn't solve the problem, but that it was a way to at least use some 'top level admin influence' to lessen the level of complaints from players in-game. I was willing to swallow my pride on the matter knowing that YOU know the situation and leave the actual decision on the matter in your hands. As soon as this thread opened Compromise #2 was off the table and the shitstorm ensued. Again, let me quote your profusely accomodating statement: BuBBLe GooSe wrote ... Many of you noted in this thread that when someone calls Kever a hacker, a response of "Kever is legit so deal with it and stfu" or whatever could be offered by admins?!. Good luck, I ain't vouching for something that controversial and sketchy. Face it: you would not have accepted compromise #2 and this proves that you were not willing to swallow your pride (and still can't). Are you honestly telling me that prior to this thread you WOULD have vouched for Kever if I told you to? I don't believe you would have. My initial post in this thread is arguably neutral (despite being extremely pissed at you then, just as much as I am now), yet you chose to lead off the first response by casting doubt on my objectivity over demos. You abused rule-abiding regulars on FTC as a bullshit means of appeasing those whining about "hacking." Now you're talking about your integrity? BuBBLe GooSe wrote ... Alcohol-Powered wrote ... Hopefully she has not ultimately decided to leave, and realizes that there are regulars and admins willing to approach situations such as this with a more positive attitude than your "fuck it, ban her" tact. Keep in mind that Omni, an Op already banned her and Fetus and I voted to ban her in this thread. That's a significant chunk of the senior admins right there. And the fact that you won't even acknowledge Kever's presence as problematic makes we wonder how you managed to read through 6 pages on the matter without actually opening your eyes. I believe Omni apologized to Kever after she was unbanned. Draw whatever conclusion you want from that. Fetus is like me -- he hasn't played much in the past few months. You're willing to discount my opinion because I haven't played much lately but you appreciate the support of his opinion. How convenient. Also, what's this garbage that I refuse to acknowledge that there is a problem? Alcohol-Powered wrote ... My understanding of the only true complaint concerning Kever is the sheer amount of demands made by players to ban her. What do you not understand about that statement? For someone asking me if I've read all six pages of this post you certainly sound ignorant yourself. BuBBLe GooSe wrote ... Alcohol-Powered wrote ... I must say I am not content as a member of the "side" that voted "no" to this referendum. I would also like to offer my apology to Kever: I'm sorry that I agreed to this "compromise" and wish I had the foresight to realize that you would feel pressured to leave even though more voters prefer you were not banned. Yeah, I'm sorry too. I'm sorry that I replied to a PM from Alex when he asked my why I used console commands to intentionally drop Kever's weapon. I explained that it was a 2 vs Kever and I dropped her gun hoping that she would lose so that I wouldn't have to hear "Kever Hacks" at the end of the round. If I were you, I would have acknowledged that this:
...could easy be determined as admin abuse. I don't believe you showed any regret over these actions, and even worse, responded to me asking about these commands with a smug satisfaction. Were "vash" and "stel" being called hackers too, or are you doing precisely what I wanted to resolve: you abusing your privileges? BuBBLe GooSe wrote ... It was underhanded but at the same time, a small price to pay so that players and admins wouldn't have to endure more sly remarks. Fuck it, after 11 months of admining on FTC, you consider a dropped weapon 'abuse' then whatever. Yes, all of this was over "ma_cexec kever drop" and she dropped her AK yet still killed the last 2 CT's with a deagle anyways and there were STILL "hax" remarks,,, go figure. It's extremely underhanded punish a regular and not even have the courage to let them know you're punishing them. If you wanted to balance things out why didn't you just give the other team more health? It was a bad decision on your part and you refused to acknowledge it last Monday. It's Thursday. You're still wrong. I'm still pissed. BuBBLe GooSe wrote ... I acted in the best interests of the server and its population by infringing on Kever's play. It was a failed attempt to make her look "human" on one of her good nights. (Keep in mind that my ONLY beef with Kever is the fact that other people bitch about her.) Who runs around and drops their guns unless they're trying to pick another one up? I'm still baffled by how this makes an accused hacker look "human." You administratively abuse someone who, according to you, deserves to have admins run 'drop' commands etc. on her client because she has cl_restrict_server_commands set to anything other than 0. Your words: "what kind of noob plays with cl_restrict_server_commands 1 everytime?" Yet then you make this accusation: BuBBLe GooSe wrote ... Kever just utilizes the cl_interpolate and cl_interp commands in such a way to see enemies before they see her... its not 'hacking', but its kinda weak. ...here: -[link]- I recall running ma_rates a few weeks after you made this post and saw nothing out of the ordinary with her rates. Also, when she asked me on Sunday why she kept dropping her gun for no obvious reason, correction, when you "acted in the best interests of the server," I asked her what cl_restrict_server_commands was set to on her client and she didn't even know. So this person "rate hacks" but doesn't even know about cl_restrict_server_commands? I find this difficult to believe, and I genuinely believe you DO have other problems with Kever aside from number of times people request her to be banned. BuBBLe GooSe wrote ... I can be honest about it because I still know that my save percentage is 99.9%, my batting averate is .999, my earned run average is 0.01, my free throw percentage is 99.9%. So whatever, I acted to the best of my ability to make Kever look 'human' and to avoid some bitching. This is the level that my head works on and sometimes you gotta make the tough choices if you honestly think it is in everyone and the servers' best interests. I honestly thought that if all of the dead people say Kever lose a round, they would not be so quick to complain about hacks. Take it how you will, some will agree and some will disagree but at the end of the day, I'm a Patriot and I acted in the best interests of everyone whether you realize it or not. Did you notice how I did agreed to your suggestion of calling an unorthodox vote? Did you notice how I remained relatively neutral in my initial post? We disagreed on this issue of banning Kever but then do you realize you took a giant shit on me within the first few points of your initial post? Christ, dude, you immediately starting casting doubt on my objectivity by saying shit like: BuBBLe GooSe wrote ... there's nothing that can be done because the demos that were provided were 'inconclusive' based on solely Alex's opinion. I figure that the opinion might have been swayed given their IM buddy buddy relations and no offense to Alex BuBBLe GooSe wrote ... I'm pissed when Newcomers say "How do you let that hacker play on your server?" directed at admins yet based on Alex's special intrest toward this individual, nobody can do anything. BuBBLe GooSe wrote ... I'm left to rudely give a 'no response' because of the way admins are handcuffed with regards to this individual. You have to admit that you didn't paint me in a very flattering light. Even after dozens of posts were in I STILL tried to maintain objectivity and not cast doubts on your commitment, motivation, or admin abilities. The only personal retaliation I responded to was you trying to suggest that I'm 'gah-gah' over Kever (as you stated in our xfire conversation Monday night). I think did a sufficient job of reestablishing my credibility by stating that I discarded the notion that Kever hacks with the two demos an FT sent me TWO MONTHS BEFORE I EVER SPOKE TO HER OTHER THAN 'hi' IN FTC. You continued with the smug satisfaction that even though the people voting decided your position is wrong, you still think you got what you wanted, and attempted to further push my buttons. This is why you are getting this kind of reaction from me. BuBBLe GooSe wrote ... Alcohol-Powered wrote ... Hopefully you, Goose, will continue your tireless work of promoting "a smoother operating server" by pushing to ban regulars such as Steel. Keep up the good work. Well lets see here. You wanna step into my head and come onto my level of thought process? Fine. Lets take a look at the senior admins to better illustrate my position... Fetus rarely plays. Omega gives cash to All, not the losing side and plays under various alias' and played under a dstR. tag. Omni played under a dstR. tag too and the night this thread started, he dropped the vote "has Office lost its dynamics?" Options were..yea; Ts ALWAYS camp, no, idc on a FULL 24/7 Office server. You only put in 24 hours of play this year and I can't approach you on X-Fire to ask/tell you anything because the last time I did that You and Fetus accosted me asking "Where does your loyalty lay, with the FT clan or with the FTC server?" I will save the fragile minds by not going into detail, but I saved the logs if you want to refresh your memory. And that was back in Oct. I went on X-Fire again a few nights ago and what happens??? This thread! You want to take a few swings at other 'senior' admins aside from me? Be my guest. I'd also like to point out the irony of you embracing Aborted's opinion that Kever should be banned, even though he "rarely plays," yet you discount my understanding of this problem because what... I've played more than he has this year? Your logic is flawless. BuBBLe GooSe wrote ... So yeah, I took it upon myself to 'step up' and fill out the lead admin role by playing on FTC when I really didn't want to just so I could help YOU out while you're working and can't get on because of the 'lack-luster' approach by the rest of the senior staff. So yeah, I took it upon myself to stick with this community even though after a few short months I didn't like the way it was going and yet here I am. What are you trying to say, that it's always been high-fives and a six-pack every night for everyone else? You say you make the "hard decisions" about players like Kever but what are you really offering by wanting to ban her? I'm not sure what you appreciate more -- the thought of banning her or how upsetting banning rule-abiding regulars is to other people. You seem to thrive on both. You want to argue that you are more persistent and dedicated than anyone else here? Fine, you make a strong point. Unfortunately that does not preclude you from acknowledging that you made a mistake or dealing with the consequences. You can go back and look at what I've posted in this thread and it consists of me disagreeing with your view but feeling obligated to deal with the issue in the first place. You decided to take a shit on me and you're having trouble dealing with the consequences. I gave you the respect of taking your compromise seriously and playing along with it. Now you want to check nuts and argue who contributes more to FTC all because I have expressed displeasure at your personal insults as well as your smug and dismissive attitude of a regular FTC'er. I can't believe you would even consider taking this argument to that level. BuBBLe GooSe wrote ... I take time out of my schedule to ensure that the server is running smooth in your absence and I bring a legit concern to the table and I get shit on for it. Interesting statement. Here's how I would describe the above: you bring your own concern to the table, try to get a pass on your admin abuse, and are now trying pull out your dick and say FTC revolves around it. BuBBLe GooSe wrote ... If you really have a problem with me or you think that I am in any way detremental to the server, then just say the word and I'll resign all admin responsabilities for the greater good of the server and I'll do it as quick as I can. If that is your solution to your inability to acknowledge that you fucked up, took a few swings at me, and are oblivious to why I want to defend rule-abiding regulars of this server you are trying to hard to help... the choice is yours. BuBBLe GooSe wrote ... I am willing to take the necessary steps, whether that is with regards to Kever or with regards to myself. How many other admins can honestly say that? Most people who want or ask for admin do so to attain power and influence. I could care less about either if the server is full and happy and only abuse either for the betterment of the server (in this instance ^^). I would be surprised if you genuinely want to apologize to Kever for trying to assign all hacking complaints on her shoulders. I would like to point out, again, that you lack perspective of the big picture when it comes to skilled players in general. Why have you not PM'd me or caught up with me on xfire about banning other controversially skilled players? Are you taking your time or what? Can't keep up with all the fundamental roles of single-handlely keeping FTC running? If you're prepared to take the responsibility of admitting that you made a mistake then I applaud your effort. Nothing you've posted in this thread indicates that you would do that, but the thought is nice. BuBBLe GooSe wrote ... I didn't apply to be a surf admin this time around because I recognized that FTC may need a bit more help because its rough around the edges and the new admin procedure that will be launched this weekend couldn't come sooner. I don't just take it too far, I take it all the way, anything less is just not far enough. I exceed, what I feel are, reasonable obligations to FTC and I believe you do the same. Trying to overshadow your abuse of Kever and others, as well as your failed attempt to ban her, with your "tak[ing] it all the way" attitude is not helping you out at this point. BuBBLe GooSe wrote ... I've got a test tomorrow(later on today) worth 33% of my mark but I'm here dealing with this fucking shit. Believe me, there are other things I could be doing so if my efforts are not appreciated, just let me know. Oh and before I forget, Congratz Alex! I've been registered on forums for almost a year now and you finally won an argument, nice way to gloat and rub it in with your last post, you wouldn't just let it die and you had to attack me again eh, nice. You're dealing with a problem which you were instrumental in creating but it's all my fault, right? I am dealing with all sorts of deadlines at work over the next several weeks but I spent much time writing this post today. Can I blame you about the added stress you gave me all because you couldn't resist abusing regulars? Keep in mind that you set the tone for personal attacks in your very first post on this thread. Don't dish it out if you can't take it. BuBBLe GooSe wrote ... You finally made it on the board and its not hard to keep count when the score was Goose: All, Alex: None. In closing, I'm a fuckin Patriot and I bleed fish guts, but if you think I'm in any way detremental to server operations, just say the word and I'll hand in a resignation tomorrow, cuz I'm pissed and I ain't shittin'. I've got nothing to say about this steaming loaf of a quote. BuBBLe GooSe wrote ... I was under the impression that admins that were entrusted with more abilities also had more duties along with the kicking of TKers and balancing teams... I thought that we were alloted more responsability to do what was in the best interests of the server and as Omega points out, sometimes you just gotta go with your gut and hope that you're right. If you're not right, hopefully the situation gets handled a bit better than this one was... Solutions that involve banning rule-abiding regulars with over 100 hours should not be "gut" decisions. Learn how to ask for help and admit you've made mistakes. aborted fetus wrote ... BuBBLe GooSe wrote ... Fuck it, after 11 months of admining on FTC, you consider a dropped weapon 'abuse' then whatever. I do consider you giving yourself (and only yourself) weapons at round start admin abuse. That is outright cheating. BuBBLe GooSe wrote ... Whenever I join I always go to the losing side and effectively if the round already starts before I can join a team, I'll have $800. I figure that it wouldn't be fair to give cash out to anyone given I just joined and I don't know the round history. If it was a slaughter and I join the slaughtered team, sure I'll toss myself a $2750 scout and that only happens 2-3 times a month. I figure that the rest of my losing team has at least $3000 anyways so I'm not putting myself at any advantage but I am helping with team balance ever so slightly. How can you state that you "always go to the losing side" and give yourself a scout, yet you claim you don't know which team to give cash to because you just joined? If you can't do one then you shouldn't do the other, right? Wait, I get it, you can handicap individual players by making them drop weapons mid-round and give youself a weapon at round start. BuBBLe GooSe wrote ... Does anyone else have any problems with me, cuz clearly this is the place to put it because I'm soo shitty at being an admin... You chose to fall back on your credibility (and dispute mine) in this thread. You deserve what you get. |
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| GOD. |
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Registered Member #381
Joined: Wed Aug 09 2006, 08:21PMPosts: 405 |
the thesis of alex demands redears to awknowledge the greatness of the art of rhetoric | ||
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| Omni |
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terrible one
Registered Member #33
Joined: Tue Nov 29 2005, 11:50PMPosts: 1292 |
i acknowledge this threads existence, don't think I'm ignoring it.... i will not make my thoughts on the matters n e more public then they already are. |
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