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| FTC camping policy DISCUSSION | ||
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| Jesus[tzahal] |
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![Jesus[tzahal]](/media/avatar/100x0/upload/mango_kiwi.1172003384.jpg)
Registered Member #530
Joined: Wed Jan 03 2007, 10:56PMPosts: 807 |
I was originally going to just send this to Alcohol, but I decided that community feedback on this subject area is important. This is NOT a vote, it is simply for feedback for the new player policy that was supposed to come out 6 months ago or something and is still not out, so let's force it out!  PART 1: alrighty.. since the threads are closed and you are as you say "making a new policy", i have a suggestion: after spectating tonight various CTs for 30 mins, I have come to the conclusion that they are avoiding the current rules in place. I will take midnight for example. He is the last one alive every round, and so I wondered why. I spectated him for several rounds and I realized that he does the same route or the same type of thing round after round. He takes his walk towards the little tunnel under front offices, but decides that it isn't so enjoyable without slicing out the windows of snipers nest. So he cuts the windows wasting about 10 secs then proceeds to snowman. he goes to snowman, up the ladder and waits for about 5-10 secs. then sometimes he will run out through the other window and through tunnel again, or he will go through the front office window to the frontyard directly, and on the rare occasion he will leave front office to advance. The problem I see is that some CTs are avoiding the CT camping policy by dicking around in circles for a while doing nothing progressive. I know it is included in the policy as "no retreating, no advancing means camping or being an idiot wasting time." This needs to be more well recognized first of all and then more enforced secondly. But what about the CTs that use "retreating" to fall back from frontyard to garage leading to backyard when there is only 1 minute remaining. Shouldn't this count as wasting time as their objective is to rescue hostages? If they double back then they destroy their chance of hostage rescue and need to be lucky enough to find and eliminate terrorists. PART 2: If there is one CT left, and (s)he does not know where the remaining terrorists are and there are only 40 seconds left in the round, and the CT is at long hall, then his most logical course of action, and this is what should be enforced although sometimes considered "annoying", is to advance towards hostages. If the CT goes to rescue the hostages, then he is more than likely going to have a run-in with a terrorist. However, if there is only 40 seconds left in the round, then their first thought is "oh crap, no time to rescue hostages, let's double check where I have been so I can kill the terrorist and win the round". What if the T is waiting outside the doors leading to mainhall so that he can get a knife? The CT will have more of a chance to run-in with the Terrorist if they follow their path down long hall, into back-hall and T spawn to recover the hostages. That is the quickest route and it can be accomplished with 40 seconds. The CT will encounter the T on the way to hostage rescue point and the round will end. What has already been established is that if the CT runs back to front office he should be punished, but what if he runs around T spawn and PR looking for the T but doesn't touch the hosties? This should be covered + enforced but is sometimes dismissed... One of the objectives is to elimite the opposing force. People will use this rule to counter-act the hostage rule. What we need to establish is a fine line between the two. We need to define the difference and the problems. Eliminating the opposing force is fine within reason; if it is a 1v1 and you can HEAR the enemy nearby, then eliminating is the least time-consuming, and as it provides action, the people waiting for the next round aren't bored. If you HEAR the enemy nearby but creep to them to eliminate them by surprise is NOT a way to go. Why? Creeping gives the opposition enough time to run away. If the opposition does not run away, but instead starts to walk as well then neither party knows where the other is. This has wasted ten seconds of CT time already. Hostage rescue is too late. Should the CT be punished then or later? This is similar to one of my rules I have to uphold as a soccer official. The offside rule; the player can be in an offside position, but is not penalized unless they meet 3 criteria: Gaining an advantage, playing the ball or interfering with active play. If the ball is played in the direction of the player, he is not penalized until he receives the ball or is on a clear breakaway. I see a connection between this rule and the problem I see with the CTs. The CT still has 30 seconds remaining in the round. Is a slay in order because he had the chance to rescue hostages but didn't? This I believe needs to be discussed with the community... I think I just confused myself, so I will sum it up: 40 secs - CT long hall, enough time to rescue hostages. 30 secs - CT in T spawn because (s)he heard the Terrorist and wants to make the kill rather than rescue hostages. 25 secs - T starts to walk, CT blew chance at rescuing hostages and has 25 seconds to find and eliminate the Terrorist. Should the CT be penalized then for disobeying the hostage rescue rule? He knew the approximate direction of the T and felt like eliminating him would be both quicker and easier. If the CT does not find the Terrorist, should the CT be slayed? If the CT finds the terrorist with 1 second left and makes the kill, but all the way down at front office, and a bunch of people lose their bet money, should the CT be penalized? In otherwords, is it written in stone that if a CT does not attempt a hostage rescue that he is punished? PART 3: Ha, right. I went to sleep after part two and I forgot what I was talking about, so part 3 is what you guys think Post it up, but please provide examples of situations as well as well thought out plans. |
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| emerican |
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Registered Member #164
Joined: Tue Mar 07 2006, 12:07PMPosts: 3146 |
i think part three should be the ban of goose's spray. nah ill keep my insights out of this and leave it to the people who know what theyre talking about |
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| Kalibur |
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Registered Member #101
Joined: Thu Dec 29 2005, 01:04AMPosts: 578 |
emerican wrote ... i think part three should be the ban of goose's spray. nah ill keep my insights out of this and leave it to the people who know what theyre talking about Just straight spam  I’m too tired to read this 3 times and then make a good post so I will make a post on this later tomorrow or the coming days. But you do bring up some damn good points PS: Midnights going to get kill now lol you gave his whole CT strategy away Edited Wed Jul 18 2007, 04:32AM |
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| Jesus[tzahal] |
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Registered Member #530
Joined: Wed Jan 03 2007, 10:56PM Posts: 807 |
Kalibur wrote ... Both of you, "Post it up, but please provide examples of situations as well as well thought out plans. "emerican wrote ... i think part three should be the ban of goose's spray. nah ill keep my insights out of this and leave it to the people who know what theyre talking about Just straight spam Please.. Honestly.. What the fuck? This is serious discussion, hence it is in the FTC forum rather than schooling fish. Can you please stay on topic, and don't call out spam in this thread, it just causes more spam. I said in my initial post to keep spam out and stick to important discussions, so please stick to it. |
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| O_Mega |
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Inconsistant Ownage Device
Registered Member #59
Joined: Sat Dec 10 2005, 06:12PMPosts: 1058 |
I think people need to relax and stop pretending this is separate country whose rules must be followed to the dot or we will fall into anarchy and everyone will DIE HORRIBLY. Admin are expected to understand camping and act accordingly. Every situation is different. Camping at back window too long is camping. But Ill admit if its me vs 7 Ill do it sometimes. Im not wasting time, the TS will come to me. I will get shot at and shoot at them, and there is no chance in hell im going to make it to projector without thinning the herd. I kill some, earn my team some money, quite possibly kill all of them, either way it gives my team, which was probly at the other end of some stacking, a chance the next round. We could write a million words on every rule, have countless discussions and arguments, or we could just enforce the rules and let people play. If someone fucks around every round, who cares? If they start wasting time for everyone else, then deal with it. Its what admins are for. | ||
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| Knightrider |
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Meteor 2016
Registered Member #316
Joined: Mon Jun 26 2006, 09:14PMPosts: 3503 |
Expanding the rule and explaining what you can and cannot do would be impossible, considering a minority actually read the rules. It is up to an admin to lay out the law whenever he/she sees a CT camping. If you are spectating a CT that is doing what you explained above, you may tell him to move it. There's never going to be a perfectly ran server, that is why there is admins. An addition to the policy as stated above would be nice, but too farfetched to most to handle. | ||
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| Zero |
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I want to fuck your hand.
Registered Member #571
Joined: Thu Feb 15 2007, 09:59PMPosts: 2809 |
I completely agree with Omega. and at times, just like myself, alot of us "die hard office players" know that as much as we complain about camping, it gets the best of us at times. liek omega says sometimes its when you are the only one left and you are getting attached from like 8 different people, or it can be just like your case Jesus when it was you on someone else and we all bitched at you for not getting the hosties and camping, but you knew, you just knew that you could get that guy. All in all, I think that even after getting the round time set with another 5+seconds, and its now at like 2:30 or something, if anyone camps and the round takes too long, the most you have to wait anyways for it to be over is about 1:45 seconds. its not THAT much time, so I dont see the need for the Camping Policy to become more strict Also, ive found that with people that just come onto the server, get turned off when they take their time a little bit and 8 people try to votekick them and drill them about what they did wrong. Changing it to be more strict would only make this worse and the flow of people would just drop. I know myself ive gotten 3 people to leave the server from just saying "Dude, please read the rules, and try not to take so long next time. gotta get the hosties", and if that was "too hard", just imagine what would happen if we made it worse I think for this one we get too caught up in it, because we play with Regulars and members all day long, but for the people that just want to hop on for 5 mins dont deserve to get slayed and flamed for just the fact that we are angry at them for taking there time, or not reading the rules. Honestly, when you enter a new server, how many of you read their entire set of rules before playing? you just wnat to get in and play!! I smell hypocrites and im one of them as well. |
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| Jesus[tzahal] |
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Registered Member #530
Joined: Wed Jan 03 2007, 10:56PM Posts: 807 |
"If someone fucks around every round, who cares? If they start wasting time for everyone else, then deal with it. Its what admins are for." That's my concern. If the admin deals with it "admin abuse!" This is what I am trying to avoid, so I want to make something publicly noted by the regulars. note: If the people are fucking around and I slay, then they will know that's the rule. But if the regulars haven't seen that enforcement before then they need to be up to date. If we can come to an agreement on what uselessness is or what wasting time is so that everyone is all on the same page, then it makes it easier for both the admins and the players, correct? |
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| Knightrider |
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Meteor 2016
Registered Member #316
Joined: Mon Jun 26 2006, 09:14PM Posts: 3503 |
They can complain all they want, that is what chat history is for. And that is why most if not all admin abuse claims against you have failed. | ||
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| O_Mega |
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Inconsistant Ownage Device
Registered Member #59
Joined: Sat Dec 10 2005, 06:12PM Posts: 1058 |
Oddly enough I manage to enforce the rules, warn, slay, kick, and ban campers, hackers, tkers, asshats, spammers, racsists, ect. And very rarely get admin abuse threads. It is quite possible to flex your admin muscle without pissing people off. | ||
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