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| alcosatz |
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FT Classic Op
Registered Member #39
Joined: Fri Dec 02 2005, 10:30PMPosts: 1545 |
Team balance is bust and I rarely hear positive comments about yTB anymore, or the positive enforcement of team balance in general. I've given up on trying to enforce sensible mic communication because it curbs the social interaction of talking about last weekends camping trip for 20 minutes straight. CT's are accused of camping 30 seconds into the round and I'm baffled by this. I've given up on limiting disruptive sprays because I'm clearly trying to censor an appropriate pageant of expression, and enforcing my own concept of keeping communication contextually centered on CS:S is clearly not representative of the community. The list can go on and on but the recurring theme is that I have continually tried and failed to manipulate other people into subscribing to my own beliefs. Filtering my own understanding of what should constitute a respectable environment has gone wrong time and time again. I've been fooling myself by thinking that people want rational discourse in terms of server rules and operation. Running a pub is a matter of satisfying immediate needs and concerns through whatever means possible. Trying to anchor FTC rules or expected conduct in principled ideas is clearly not what the average FTC newbie, regular, or admin desires. While I understand that a very limited segment of FTC'ers appreciate the effort thus far, posting this here, on forums, only perpetuates the fallacy. I imagine some will posit that FTC has mostly been on the right track for the past two years. The principles haven't changed and I've been pushing the same ideas for so long. I appreciate those that have noticed, put on a helmet, and get shat on repeatedly by all manner of FTC'ers (including admins and regs) that couldn't care less about the sustenance the server or FT at large. Plenty of mistakes have been made on my part. I've also tried to assist in smoothing over the edges of mistakes made by otherse as well. Ultimately, though, I've fed my own ego by trying to mediate and supposedly correct improper behavior among admins/regs as well as myself, and this is to a selfish end. As much as I want to feel bitter and cheated over the time, money, and effort I've placed into FTC it's been nothing more than an attempt at justifying my own self importance. This post isn't a cry for acknowledgment, validation, or anything of that sort. This also isn't a cop out to say that I don't want to be involved anymore either--I want very much to be involved in this community but it's time for less restrictive rules and a more representative mode of operation that is widely tolerated. Overbearing my own ideals on the masses isn't working. I am comfortable with the idea that I don't know what is best for everyone. However, it's worth saying that, baring a few drunken exceptions, my intentions, while selfish and full of pride in nature, have been to put forth what I believe to be the best 24/7 office environment available. The fruition of my best intentions leave much to be desired by many but I can genuinely say that I tried. The good news is that we can fix this and alter (or eliminate) the rules with which so many players have complaints. Where do we go from here? I'll try to figure out the best ways to limit the oppression of issues like team balance, CT camping, etc. but I would prefer that most "rollbacks" of FTC policy are driven by you. Please pass on criticism you hear from other players, even if you do not personally agree with them. This is part of the fallacy I mentioned earlier: many forum readers may think this post unreasonable, but please dig deep and consider what the average FTC'er objects to most about the server and pass that on. Many thanks, and I'm sorry that this sounds so depressing. Despite my negative tilt to this post I am honestly trying to keep things going. |
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| Jesus[tzahal] |
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![Jesus[tzahal]](/media/avatar/100x0/upload/mango_kiwi.1172003384.jpg)
Registered Member #530
Joined: Wed Jan 03 2007, 10:56PMPosts: 807 |
I'll admit that I get pissed off with yTB whenever I try to make an admin switch; I'll switch two people to balance the teams because yTB hasn't made a swap for several rounds, then yTB swaps the exact same two people so they are back on their original teams, or one of the ones that I selected to be moved gets yTB'd and there is still the balance issue. As far as the other things go, it's all a matter of opinions and nothing will fully satisfy everyone. Some people will consider 40 seconds still legit (not camping), while others will consider 10 seconds camping. Who is right? Neither; it is an opinion. How can it be solved? A comprimise. Put it in the middle; 25 seconds = camping. Will this fully satisfy either? No, but it will satisfy both a little more; the one who wants 40 seconds will have less time to "spend" while the one who wants 10 seconds will have more time to "wait" (if you see where I'm coming from). The only thing that you can do to satisfy everyone at the same time is based on what everyone is saying when they're dead. If they are talking about dead babies, let the round continue no matter how slow the CT is creeping, but if they are all yelling "SLAY SLAY SLAY!!!" then in the server's best interest, slay. But what you see here is that there is an overwhelming amount of complaints, but if this really bothered the regulars of the server, they either wouldn't come back, or would speak up for change. If neither of these approaches are taken then how is the current structure of FTC and your operation of it to blame? They still come back and don't provide insight to the forums, so what I can conclude from it is that it is temporary anger; someone gets swapped to CTs when they were kicking ass on Ts and they get all angry because it will ruin the score blah blah blah, but for the good of the "competitive play" that being balanced teams. Of course you will hear a bash on yTB for the swap, but it does help. The issue that yTB has is that there are people that just connect and have a 2-2 score or 0-0 score. These scores will basically be on par with the people with a 30-30 score. Does this necessarily mean that these two players are of the same skill because they both currently have a 1:1 KDR? Nope. The recently connected player can go 2-8 after that, and it could have just been a lucky multi-kill with a nade, but it would still come down to a 0 k-d difference. These two players wouldn't be swapped with one another, however, but the 2:2 guy could be swapped with a 1:6 guy to try to balance the teams while making them worse. Those are my two issues with yTB; it's machine aspect (it runs by a K-D difference script rather than judging skill) and it's machine aspect again (it will act at the same time as an admin swap) As far as the integrity of FTC goes, unless I am completely oblivious to the issues, I think that it is running fairly smoothly... |
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| Vincent Vega |
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Registered Member #578
Joined: Fri Feb 23 2007, 07:00AMPosts: 176 |
I like Steel's idea, and he makes a very good point about yTB. If you really wish to rollback, don't roll back CT camping. We're not that kind of server 
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| emerican |
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Registered Member #164
Joined: Tue Mar 07 2006, 12:07PMPosts: 3146 |
theres been numerous times ive seen people like hakha who are 60-20 get switched to a team by yTB that doesnt need the help. with that said i would say yTB has been a failure that hasnt exactly done what you intended it to do. i see your self described failure as a triumph, simply because you operate a server and listen to what the people want, yet you still make your own decisions, and to me that shows that you truly care about making a great playing enviornment. in my limited time on the server i have experienced a fair amount of situations where the rules come in play, and i would say they are well thought out and executed mostly in a good manner. the ct camping rule is a big one that i believe is the best one we have, because nobody likes a ct camping garage for two minutes while the dead people cant do anything. |
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| jigg4joe |
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Registered Member #326
Joined: Wed Jul 05 2006, 04:15AMPosts: 635 |
i think yTB does a good job in the fact that it usually doesn't switch the same player over and over, and that it continually mixes up the teams. as far as actually balancing the teams with each switch, it leaves a lot to be desired. doesn't really matter, players who don't want to be switched will always switch back at their first opportunity. i say leave it. i also say....whatever, it's a pub. there will always be complaints. the fact that we have a successful server and online community is due in major part to your efforts, alex. i think the server is running great and that you shouldn't let pub complaints worry you TOO much. they should worry you a little, it is your server after all, but don't stress too much. it's bad for your health. |
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| kd. |
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♥ (✿◠‿◠) ♥
Registered Member #75
Joined: Sat Dec 17 2005, 08:51PMPosts: 3128 |
I know I'm probably not wanted in this forum because I never play there, but I'm just wondering. Did I miss some big thing? Feel free not to respond if this is a stupid question, or if it doesn't pertain to me. |
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| L3muR |
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Registered Member #378
Joined: Tue Aug 08 2006, 09:28PMPosts: 239 |
I'm pretty sure there was no big catalyst to cause this thread, if thats what ya mean kd, but i could of missed it as well. I think that as a whole, FTC is a great server, and that there are very few large problems. To me, the biggest problem is yTB. It was a good effort, but i just don't see it working. When a team is getting stomped, every round, over and over, and yTB says that that team has the advantage, that pisses me off. CT camping is sometimes an issue. I don't think CT camping is necessarily limited to "You were in point A at Time B". You can tell when someone is camping. Whenever I'm the last person alive, I try my best to either end the round fast, or make it interesting for the people watching me. Being the last CT left, walking carefully through front office with 10 seconds left on the clock isn't very helpful, and if your moving, generally people won't consider it camping. Mainly, I think the camping is a minor issue, that comes with the pub territory. yTB is the only thing I see that should be fixed. Edited Wed Aug 29 2007, 07:26PM |
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| Jesus[tzahal] |
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Registered Member #530
Joined: Wed Jan 03 2007, 10:56PM Posts: 807 |
L3muR: When you die, if you check your minimap (radar) you can see a line of where everyone has been. If the "tail" has been in the same vicinity for a while (backyard AREA or front office AREA) then it should be considered camping. Camping is a very minor issue on a full server with admins. Usually the games are quicker paced so that is of no worries. As to the yTB saying "advantage 30 k-d" for CT even though they've lost 8 rounds in a row, this is the partial reason behind this: The script takes the kills of the people on the team, and subtracts it based on deaths (i.e. 20kills + 5 deaths = 4KDR, but yTB doesn't work on KDR it works on kill to death difference, in this case its 20kills-5deaths = 15K-D difference). When yTB has the K-D for both teams, it subtracts one from the other. For instance, if the CT team has three people on it, one guy is 20-19 another is 20-21 and another is 40-40 then the K-D is 0. 20 + 20 + 40 - 19 - 21 - 40 = 0 The CT K-D = 0, and if the Ts have something like 2-2, 5-4, 7-3 for kills then its 2 + 5 + 7 - 2 - 4 - 3. This K-D is equal to 5. Therefore the T team has an advantage of 5 K-D. That being 5(T K-D) - 0(CT K-D). Pretty balanced, so it wouldn't make a change. The problem yTB has is that it won't change on KDR or total rank as it is near impossible to script, so yTB was made to be the possible team balancing script. It has it's issues from being just a script with no AI, but it does the trick.. on occasion.. The best way in a stomp like that is to ask an admin to switch two people, in the event of an absent admin you would need to get two people to willingly switch which would even up the teams. Also, it needs to be kept in mind that if it comes down to a 1v1 every round yet the T or CT gets the last kill 8 rounds in a row, are the teams really unbalanced? They are very balanced but the CT or T is the slightest bit better to get that last kill which tips the scales. *Edited for spacing* Edited Wed Aug 29 2007, 07:44PM |
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| Omni |
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terrible one
Registered Member #33
Joined: Tue Nov 29 2005, 11:50PMPosts: 1292 |
for the sake of argument/discussion. "Unbalanced" teams can add to dynamics, if the Teams were kept practically even then every round would be very similar to each other. Just a thought. (it can be TOO stacked but that doesn't even need to be explained) |
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| Hakha[reaper] |
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![Hakha[reaper]](/media/avatar/100x0/upload/vida2.1170289297.jpg)
Registered Member #554
Joined: Tue Jan 30 2007, 10:44PMPosts: 10 |
YTB SUCKS!! Glad its been taken care of. |
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