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| Sla |
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I will verbally rape you.
Registered Member #636
Joined: Fri Apr 06 2007, 01:15AMPosts: 495 |
NoSkill wrote ... I thought the Admin Escalation Procedure was just a general guideline, rule of thumb, good suggestion worth following, and sound advice. I didn't realize it was a "Do this or else." document... I don't think any set of rules can replace the discretion of a mature, active and reserved admin. Um.. wrote ... These are the steps I would like admins to follow when punishing a player for bad behavior. All admins should follow this, unless you are dealing with a repeat offender. Obviously, he is an admin so he should follow these steps. I am done in this thread, my word probably means nothing anyways. Edited Wed Jul 23 2008, 12:28AM |
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| Kirby |
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Registered Member #452
Joined: Fri Oct 06 2006, 07:14PMPosts: 600 |
[quote] [quote] Ok, first of all, you have to follow the correct admin procedure. -[link]- wrote ... 1. Warn 2. Punish 3. Wait 4. Kick 5. Warn 6. Ban You can't make up your own admin rules without it being voted for by FT members. [/quote1216762784] I have followed that, that is not working. And admin procedures are not a voting concern. While ops have taken advice and listened to suggestions in the past it is still not up for a vote. [/quote1216772837] How does it not work if you follow that. It give the trouble making time to change his/her ways. If he/she does not listen they get punished. There is no room for complaint if this procedure is done correctly. |
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| Omni |
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terrible one
Registered Member #33
Joined: Tue Nov 29 2005, 11:50PMPosts: 1292 |
pfft tba Edited Wed Jul 23 2008, 08:30PM |
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| Zero |
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I want to fuck your hand.
Registered Member #571
Joined: Thu Feb 15 2007, 09:59PMPosts: 2809 |
the whole fucking problem in the glas4d thread was, Noskill didn't give warning because he wanted to investigate it himself. that's fine, but even if you witness it it's still be a good idea to warn. Yeah Glas4d is the fucking problem, but if he is the problem and you want to fix it, TELL HIM TO FUCKING STOP!! It's not a warning let alone a message to tell them to stop fucking up! Like Sla said, it doesn't matter if you need to take matters into your own hands, you still follow procedure. You didn't warn ANYBODY when you logged on, and this is where your guy's anger is coming from. If regulars are breaking rules, stop breaking them yourself trying to deal with situations. Our escalation process has always fucking worked, you just need to put it into motion. If you dont want to take the necessary steps as an admin, because they are time worthy, or boresome, don't be an admin. They were placed there for a reason, and doing your own thing is NOT why you were elected to govern how things are run. Follow the procedure, and they follow rules. Not warning somebody, FT, Regular, or newcomer, then you are breaking the rules. Things will get done if you follow the procedure you were given. |
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| NoSkill |
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Sir
Registered Member #457
Joined: Tue Oct 10 2006, 01:13PMPosts: 2628 |
The adherence to and encouragement/enforcement of the server rules is what prompted members' promotion to admins in the first place. Admins don't need rules, they need support and encouragement! We don't have problems with admins abusing their power. We have problems with people undermining and disrespecting the admins. We don't have problems with admins not following the rules. We have problems with non-admins not following the rules. The solution? More rules for admins? ... the fact that you guys think this is a problem with admins is pretty wild. One admin takes a relatively strong stance (a 15 min ban w/o a warning) against a particularly problematic non-admin and all of a sudden the admins are out of control and need to be checked? I mean is that the direction this conversation is heading? Edited Wed Jul 23 2008, 01:26AM |
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| alcosatz |
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FT Classic Op
Registered Member #39
Joined: Fri Dec 02 2005, 10:30PMPosts: 1545 |
Please read the MOTD:Admin Punishment -[link]- The Punishment Escalation Procedure has not been used for quite a while. I suggest that the PEP thread is no longer sticky in this forum, since the PEP is precisely what Omni and I were getting at with the "complex punishment procedures have been used in the past but these seemed to be more of a procedural stumbling block than effective methods of administration" statement above. |
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| Zero |
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I want to fuck your hand.
Registered Member #571
Joined: Thu Feb 15 2007, 09:59PM Posts: 2809 |
I do not think it's a problem with admins following the rules, I just think that if it's the GUIDELINES THAT SHOULD BE FOLLOWED, then they should be followed. I too disagree with the behavior, but I only see taking these sortof measures making it worse. BAN EVERYONE FOR 15 minutes! that will make the place much more fun. Like Glas4d said, once he left a bunch of people just left. So it's not one or the other, let three leave, or boot glas4d and let others follow, it's follow the right procedure. There was never a fucking institution of MORE RULES FOR ADMINS, it was a gesture for admins to use the "outline" set out for them. I also dont agree with what's being put in place in the mean time. Ban someone for asking why he didn't get warned? that means if you ignore him long enough, YOURE ALLOWED TO BAN THEM?!? wtf. They aren't the problem at all, jesus christ. I haven't been on in days but I dont think I should until this new "guideline" gets put into place. My idea is, that since both are having problem, how about we take the situation out of the admins hands, and the instigator's hands, and just make a script that boots them after a certain ammount of team attacks. For instance, you get booted for TKing at least 5 times for 30 minutes. how about a script that boots for 15 mins if you team attack 10 times? sound fair? sounds pretty fucking easy to me instead of going through all this nonsense. |
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| yourdroid |
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Registered Member #36
Joined: Thu Dec 01 2005, 06:12PMPosts: 214 |
Sla, i appreciate the insight and no ones thoughts are meaningless unless their just being stupid for the sake of being stupid. If i am making a mistake then i want people to point it out. I see the point both you and zero are making, however, i also see the flaw in your argument within your own posts. "unless you are dealing with a repeat offender" is used in your quote above. And that is why this new personal policy applies only to regulars. If they are regulars and have been around long enough to know the rules and they still partake in breaking them, then they have surely been warned multiple times. I know I have warned many people and have seen other admins warn many others. So even with your own quote I am well within the already set limits that you claim i am not following. Also "unless you are dealing with a repeat offender" acknowledges the fact that the PEP is not perfect and will not always work. Omni, if you want to run anything by me for something official just pm me. I'll try to stay as neutral as possible. |
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| BuBBLe GooSe |
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The Original MilfHunter
Registered Member #163
Joined: Mon Mar 06 2006, 02:24PMPosts: 1592 |
Banning should pretty much always be a last resort and rarely used as a ‘first strike’ measure. (The obvious exception would be speed-hackers and people who join the server for the sole purpose of TKing.) I find that the most effective tool in the admin arsenal is the green text/admin speak function. Admin Speak (or warning) usually solves the problem 90-99% of the time (First-timers/regulars/([FT] members included).
The benefits of Green Text are numerous:
1. It is a very public way of reprimanding/informing an individual
2. It lets the person know that an admin has taken notice of their conduct and that further admin action may be on the way.
3. It makes other players in the server aware of the situation so that they can take note and offer another set of eyes/ears.
4. It usually defuses a situation before it becomes volatile and prevents useless forum drama.
5. It is a key tool in ensuring admin accountability and provides evidence during an Abuse claim.
6. (Using Direct Chat “@@  FTC admins cannot demand perfection nor can they know the details of every situation during every round… If a Reg/Mem TKs, or repeatedly pecks (forgetting what team he was on) and gets banned right off of the bat, this will surely push that person away and not give them the opportunity to say “oops, sry, my bad on that nade”. Even if the TK and Pecks were intentional, why reach straight for the Nukes? Diplomacy and Communication should always be the first step because it yields favourable results and it won’t lead to forum flamefests. Being an admin means dealing with the occasional in-game shit, and it takes a bit of ‘work’ to type out a warning or spec a few rounds… but that individual sacrifice is what makes gameplay more enjoyable for the other players. It sucks when the perpetrator is a Reg/Mem, but they should be given the same opportunities as any other player,,, without prejudice for or against them. The PEP system tries to ensure that in each situation (whether it involves a newbie or a seasoned vet), there is an opportunity for fair treatment and admin accountability. Diplomacy should be used before reaching for the ‘Nukes’ because it allows the admin to more accurately gauge the severity of the situation and its mitigating circumstances. The fairest way to approach in-game situations is to treat both the Reg/Mems and the Newbies under the scope of the same system,,, the PEP.
“This is all about admins being accountable for their actions just like players have to be accountable for their actions. In a nutshell: if admins can't follow rules then why should players?” – Alcosatz It makes perfect sense for admins to follow a set of rules if we expect players to do the same. Nuking people right off of the bat is an extreme reaction, which is more harmful than simply typing out a message.
Edited Wed Jul 23 2008, 02:29AM
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| alcosatz |
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FT Classic Op
Registered Member #39
Joined: Fri Dec 02 2005, 10:30PM Posts: 1545 |
BuBBLe GooSe wrote ... If Admin Speak doesn’t solve the problem, then the punishment can be scaladed May it also be Navigatored as well? Just missin' with ya!  I pretty much dig what you're laying down. It sounds like the PEP should be brought back in a more forceful fashion. Especially after this: NoSkill wrote ... Admins don't need rules, they need support and encouragement! We don't have problems with admins abusing their power. We have problems with people undermining and disrespecting the admins. We don't have problems with admins not following the rules. We have problems with non-admins not following the rules. The whole "admins don't need rules" is a bit troublesome. There is no vaccine for admin abuse--it is still a relevant issue. Just as when the PEP was suggested, it was means to keep myself in check more than an opportunity to drop draconian rules on admins. Admins match wits against asshats every day and it's typically a smooth process--warning is sort of useless when TK'ers voluntarily reconnect multiple times to dodge a voteban, for instance. Admins are also put in the imposition of slapping regs/FT's on the wrist for all sorts of issues: TK/FF, sketchy sprays, team stacking, etc.. Sometimes it slides to build into a larger problem and sometimes it's a chance to diffuse tension. It's important to keep in mind that, just as Goose noted, communication is key here. Banning a reg/FT without much notice doesn't translate into happy players or FT/925'ers. There is just as much potential for negative experience by TK'ing as there is for sloppy punishment by admins. This is why a clear "paper trail" of admin activity, especially through public admin chat, is crucial. It's not going to cover your ass in every instance but it's a good foundation. By the way, I'm not specifically commenting on recent happenings... just talking about the general discussion concerning the PEP as well as droid's personal policy. Anyways, we're struggling enough as it is with connections--more diplomacy is needed with our people that populate our servers. I haven't been the best model for this type of behavior but I'll also point out that I have not had epic rage-sessions in the past several weeks (I think, right? Please tell me this is true?) This is an opportunity to interpret what's been public lately, as well as a chance to look inward, and see what we can all do personally to keep crap harmonious on FTC. We have to try, right? |
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