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| emerican |
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Registered Member #164
Joined: Tue Mar 07 2006, 12:07PMPosts: 3146 |
wow. i cant believe i just read all of that. and to think i play office once a year! i have to agree with what narf posted. 'nuff said. |
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| aborted fetus |
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The All-Cum Diet
Registered Member #47
Joined: Mon Dec 05 2005, 04:55PMPosts: 1888 |
emerican wrote ... wow. i cant believe i just read all of that. and to think i play office once a year! i have to agree with what narf posted. 'nuff said. I don’t think anyone really cares what you have to say here, Emerican. I have no idea why you even posted here. Why did you? As someone who plays FTC only “once a yearâ€, why did you feel the need to apply your Mensa quality mental faculty to this issue? Oh, wait, I get it. You’re a gold medalist when it comes to spamming. I guess you saw an active thread and figured it was an avenue to further inflate your post count even though you only play FTC “once a year†and this issue doesn’t affect you at all. I suppose, because you're a spammer, you will continue your 300 posts a month trend. But, next time do us all a favor, keep that drivel out of the FTC forum and threads that, by your own admission, have nothing to do with you. ‘nuff said. Edited Sat Nov 11 2006, 03:01AM |
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| alcosatz |
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FT Classic Op
Registered Member #39
Joined: Fri Dec 02 2005, 10:30PMPosts: 1545 |
AwsedreswA wrote ... Is there a record for the number of words typed in response to a thread, if there is this one has got to be close.  Lets close this thread, and I suggest Alex open a new thread involving a discussion about team balance to help put the clan on the same page. Bottom line is this, I don't do much at all to balance teams besides switching which team I'm on. The long awaited reason can be summed up in this.... "That government is best which governs the least" --Henry David Thoreau You are certainly entitled to your own opinion but I think it's a bullshit excuse. That argument goes flat when you try to apply it to other admin responsibilities. Why would you exercise any admin responsibility when you can just tell people to voteban anyone with whom they have greif? AwsedreswA wrote ... The less an admin does to alter the game-play experience the better, no one likes it when there is someone being "admin happy." In fact the first 2 admin rules in motd seem to support this philosophy. --Keep the atmosphere on the server friendly and competitive. Give players a reason to come back. How about this: The more an admin does to enhance game-play the better. Everyone enjoys seeing an admin handling a perceived problem without having to beg and plead for him or her to do so. The first rule refutes your point in my estimation. "Keep the atmosphere on the server friendly and competitive. Give players a reason to come back" can easily be coupled with proactive attention to team balance. Why would anyone want to come back when admins are content to let them suffer? "Use power sparingly, applying it only when necessary. Admin power that is available is not always appropriate" doesn't really apply in this situation. You get an 'A' for effort, but you're making a stretch by trying to argue that an admin enforcing team balance is overstepping his or her bounds of authority. Look at the "Player Rules" section of the MOTD -- you were supposed enforce those. Perhaps I should have made that more clear. AwsedreswA wrote ... How would you like it if you die saving money by buying nothing, only to have the admin give out 16k. Yeah the 16k is nice, but kinda fucks the guy using the strat of saving money. The admin swapping players on top of slaying campers, giving out health/money, and kicking afk, makes it look like there is too much governing going on. The 16k is nice. So is an admin swapping a better player to your team (and sending a crappy player to the stacked team) as well as a regular joining your team without admin intervention. All of these things are nice -- they keep people playing. I'm pretty sure that this is a goal that is understood by people who enjoy playing on FT Classic. The concept of encouraging admins and regular players to balance teams is supposed to be a benefit. Yes, swapping players can be detrimental at times but it can also yield great rewards. People will always put up a fight about being swapped around, or whether the other teams deserves cash/health, etc. This is nothing new and, as an admin, my promotion of team balance has been met with resistance. Go back to my earlier understanding of your logic:
I still see you as sitting on your hands because you're either afraid of the negative consequences for trying to help, or you've used this whole argument as a cop-out for you being lazy. I try to proactively fix things rather than "let the chips fall where they may." As I understand it, your argument either consists of feeling no obligation to enforce team balance, or not seeing a reason. Again, I'm not sure how to interpret your argument but both of those options are unacceptable in my opinion. AwsedreswA wrote ... This is why I put team balance on the bottom of the list of admin priorities, dead last actually. AFK, team-killers, campers, hackers, people not being respectful, that shit matters (which is pretty much what Darknarf said, in his own elequent way). The shit you say matters... what is the purpose? Everything you rattled off, including team balance, affects whether people stay or leave! I believe you're trying to tell me that team balance by way of admin intervention is not needed and I disagree. I see team balance as one of many responsibilities that should be fulfilled by administrators. AwsedreswA wrote ... "That team is better than this team," is a subjective determination, specially if you make it after 4 rounds. Ever seen data on how many times straight a coin flip can end up heads or tails? (Tell me that one isn't balaned, and you better not say it's unbalanced because Washington's forehead is more airo-dynamic than the eagle) And yes, I think the issue of team balance is a matter of perception and subject to the individual's concept of fairness. I also think that this perception of unbalance is clouded by a natural tendancy of CS:S to favor the camper over the agressor I'd rather make a team balance decision after four rounds than several hundred. Not sure where you were going with the coin flipping, but I think Goose explained what a ridiculous example this was. AwsedreswA wrote ... Lets look at the link, alexh gave us for some stats. I guess this is meant to show a lack of balance, but its not clear and the sample is small (20 rounds/one day) if I'm reading it correctly. So lets get a larger sample, lets take the top 10 people with over 200 hours of play and see their ratio of CT wins:T wins, as well as the team they join...... 9 out of 10 of these players win more on T side. Some 2 to 5 times more often. They do, however, tend to join the side they win more also, but not near the same ratios as their victories. Notice that the join ratio is more often closer than the win ratio is, to being a balanced 1. This strengthens the idea that one is more likely to win on the T side, regardless of the frequency they join on the T side. I honestly have no clue how the data you provided is relevant to team balance. I understand you've done some research on player statistics that have very little context while these people are actually playing. Did you not understand that the data I provided was a snapshot of the past 20 rounds at that time? The 20 rounds of data I included from last night was definitely meant to show a lack of balance. The sample is small because most players will remember the past 20 rounds or so. What does a player's history over the course of ten months have to do with this? I would wager people who are frustrated by stacked teams are going to remember the past 20 rounds or so before they quit. During the course of those 20 rounds there are several opportunities to prevent them from leaving. Some of these opportunities may be a skilled player on the stacked team deciding to swap over to the losing team. Another opportunity may be for an admin to give cash or health to the losing team. And yet another opportunity is for an admin to swap players around to more evenly distribute skill and promote a more competetive environment. AwsedreswA wrote ... So does this mean that FTC teams tend to be unbalanced in a way that hurts CT on a regular basis? Or does this show which side is simply given an advantage, regardless of who is on which team? I think it is the latter; T gets the advantage of being able to camp and be quiet, while CT has the job of rescueing the hostages (making noise in the process). Along with the camp advantage comes the ease of teamwork advantage. If T is camping, they are likely camping together, while CT might not have the slightest bit of organization and be meeting T in a 1 on 2 battle one CT at a time. Ever notice the opposite on a de server where the roles are reversed and T has the job of being the agressor while CT can camp? The only way to counter this tendency is to communicate and act as a team. Again, no clue what you're trying to prove here. AwsedreswA wrote ... The rules on the website state that the admin is REQUIRED to balance teams to the point that 4 victories in a row constitute an unbalance; I failed to meat the expectations the server-op has of admins to balance teams. I have been punished accordingly. Those are some interesting rules that kremit created. They certainly do not apply to FT Classic. [quote] No alcohol I did not mean that as an insult. I was thinking of it the same way as you had not wanted the responsibility of the voting system because you dont look at yourself as a good leader. It was not intended to insult (Sorry if you took it that way, perhaps I should have worded it differently). -[link]- Narf, and Awse, you should have read these rules. It says in it specifically that you should swap players to keep the teams balanced. You two are respected players by me, and I didnt want to see all of this happening. But those are the rules, they are a requirement. That means, if you are not swapping, you are violating admin policy, and now I can definetely see Alcohol's reason why. Its not a matter of what you think, its FT's priority, to make it fun for others. [/quote1163199446] Nightrider, thanks for the clarification and yes, I believe you should have worded it differently. Your statement makes it sound like I haven't shown any leadership or responsibility concerning FT Classic. I think if you had more history with us you would understand that my underlying motivation for most actions (including trying to resurrect the FT clan) has been to sustain FT Classic, the office server. Again, the rules you linked have never applied to FT Classic. Kremit, please take them down as I do not think they apply anywhere, especially FT Classic. I never endorsed them and we never discussed their applicability to any server. emerican wrote ... wow. i cant believe i just read all of that. and to think i play office once a year! i have to agree with what narf posted. 'nuff said. Would you please only post about FTC issues once a year as well? |
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| DarkNarf |
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Surf Owner/Operator
Registered Member #29
Joined: Tue Nov 29 2005, 01:47AMPosts: 409 |
this has gotten childish ap, i have admin'd your server for over a year, and have been a respected player here, and have even donated to you, and your servers. I was a guest admin, i never asked for it. my prioties when i join is to play and have fun. i have only used my admin to give cash, occasionally swap players. i normally just ask them and they comply cause they know i'm an admin, and to rid the server of idiots(tk'rs, hackers(not that u see many), afk's, etc). you can't be serious you want to remove me because i do a mediocre job of balancing teams? I admit balance isn't my first priority. But i do ensure the peoples gameplay. I'm not rude person. I don't abuse my privilages. I don't think i've done anything to deserve removal. If you don't like my opinion. Then sit on it and rotate. If you can live with me having an opinion and have an open mind about it. Then cool. Not anywhere in my post does it say "I will not balance the team" it just asks why i should do it. and that was answered. I'm not asking for anything or asking for my admin back. I just wanna know why you where childish about it, you know how to contact me. If you didn't like my performance say something, i'll try to improve it. Wheres the trust. and yes my previous post was a rant. i appologise to any i offended. <3 Edited Sat Nov 11 2006, 03:11AM |
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| alcosatz |
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FT Classic Op
Registered Member #39
Joined: Fri Dec 02 2005, 10:30PM Posts: 1545 |
DarkNarf wrote ... this has gotten childish ap, i have admin'd your server for over a year, and have been a respected player here, and have even donated to you, and your servers. I was a guest admin, i never asked for it. my prioties when i join is to play and have fun. i have only used my admin to give cash, occasionally swap players. i normally just ask them and they comply cause they know i'm an admin, and to rid the server of idiots I donated to you last Spring when you didn't feel the need to pay your bill. I saw a benefit in keeping (at the time) the count of FT servers at three instead of two. If you want to be a fucking miser about it then let's compare credits and debits and if I owe you a refund then you'll get one. You've chosen to be a prick and call my goal of team balance, which predates your presence here, "a plague" and you got a reaction. Now you're saying you swap players and give cash? Make up your fucking mind -- either you're trashing the goals I have tried to promote as beneficial for FTC or your helping me. DarkNarf wrote ... (tk'rs, hackers(not that u see many), afk's, etc). Not that you know how to spot them. You banned 3 Stripe Ninja months ago, and you've always had disparaging comments about Bowser. I'm pretty sure these guys don't hack, but you know best... Anyone who sees 3 Stripe Ninja or Bowser be sure to tell either or both that Darknarf thinks they hack. DarkNarf wrote ... You can't be serious you want to remove me because i do a mediocre job of balancing teams? No. Let's look at a few things that you have previous said in this thread: DarkNarf wrote ... Fuck the Team balance. Just play the fucking game. Right on. You just play the fucking game without admin privs because you no longer have them on FTC. DarkNarf wrote ... I shouldn't be responcible for a teams shortcommings.. And most of the time its not balance. Because you do not feel responsible for team balance I do not believe you should be responsible for anything as an admin. DarkNarf wrote ... The admins job it to make sure hackers, retards, idiots, and teamkillers don't disturb peoples play. TEAM BALANCE IS LEFT TO THE DROP OF THE DICE. Again, you admit that you do swap people and set health/cash on FTC, yet... Team Balance "is left to the drop of the dice?" Fucking brilliant. Also, you have stated to me in private that you do not punish hackers on FTS, yet you have felt compelled to ban people like 3 Strip Ninja. Good work again. DarkNarf wrote ... Whoever thought up of this balancing rule has started a plague. The person that thought up this team balance concept is me. Again, it predates you and these forums and it's not going away, no matter how insulting you choose to be. DarkNarf wrote ... You people just like to cry. Everyone in this clan is a LIL BITCH if you think team balance is even needed. Need a shovel? DarkNarf wrote ... I admit balance isn't my first priority. But i do ensure the peoples gameplay. I'm not rude person. I don't abuse my privilages. Yes, you made it clear that team balance is not a priority by saying "Fuck the Team balance. Just play the fucking game." Clearly you're not rude either. DarkNarf wrote ... I don't think i've done anything to deserve removal. If you don't like my opinion. Then sit on it and rotate. Wait, how did your post start off: DarkNarf wrote ... this has gotten childish ap Way to go, champ. Since you're calling me childish yet telling me to "sit on it and rotate" you can go eat a bag of dicks. DarkNarf wrote ... If you can live with me having an opinion and have an open mind about it. Then cool. I can live with you having an opinion about anything. I can also live with nou not being an admin, or even playing, on FTC. DarkNarf wrote ... Not anywhere in my post does it say "I will not balance the team" it just asks why i should do it. and that was answered. If I had to guess, I would say: DarkNarf wrote ... I shouldn't be responcible for a teams shortcommings.. And most of the time its not balance. and: DarkNarf wrote ... Fuck the Team balance. Just play the fucking game. ...can easily translate to "I will not balance the team." DarkNarf wrote ... I'm not asking for anything or asking for my admin back. I just wanna know why you where childish about it, you know how to contact me. If you didn't like my performance say something, i'll try to improve it. Wheres the trust. You publicly say "fuck the team balance" and "I shouldn't be responcible for a teams shortcommings..." Take a fucking leap and guess the complex thought process through which I went to reach the conclusion that you no longer show an interest in being an admin. DarkNarf wrote ... and yes my previous post was a rant. i appologise to any i offended. <3 Yes, it was a rant and your most recent post is awash in heartfelt apology: DarkNarf wrote ... If you don't like my opinion. Then sit on it and rotate. I love it. You finish off another insulting post with "yes my previous post was a rant," and accuse me of being childish. How about you stop acting like a child and thinking a half-assed apology, which I doubt is sincere, fixes everything. Why don't you act like an adult and show accountability for your previous post instead of trying to squeak a BS apology in at the end that absolves you of any responsibility for your last post? |
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| Knightrider |
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Meteor 2016
Registered Member #316
Joined: Mon Jun 26 2006, 09:14PMPosts: 3503 |
Oh okay..Hah I read those too. I dont know, you can change the motd to specify that? Perhaps that would help out with the team balances. If you go and check the console, I actually will give people a heads up before I swap them. This way, it causes no confusion, and people wont whine. Most of the people that I swap do not complain, and some even volunteer to go to the other side and help out. 3 stripe ninja (If he would post here, I would nominate him. Hes very helpful in this notion) is a great example of that kind of a player. I dont really understand why people will not team swap. Its like 10 seconds of work, and it makes the game alot better for other people. To me, if you dont do that, your kind of selfish in that sense. | ||
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| mugen_power |
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Registered Member #121
Joined: Thu Jan 05 2006, 05:38AMPosts: 149 |
Seriously guys. After reading 4 pages of Team Balance. All i have to say is, Alex is the server op here. He the one who pays for it, and the one that should be making the rules. And honestly guys, he just implied a rule for FTC, which is Team Balance, and thats what he expects from the guys he's made Admin on his server. If you cant comply to his rules, then dont bother being an admin on FTC. When i see a serious need for Team balance, i will do, if i dont, i will give cash, or health, if neither cash of health work, then let the players know that you are going to switch around some guys. Some will even volunteer. Theres really no need to argue here. Alex has implied a rule, well lets follow it. He made us admins for a reason, not to just sit there and look for and punish TKer's, hackers, campers, and what not. If you cant multi task, then dont be an admin. Start looking out for everything, including team balance, every admin can do it, so theres no real excuse. He expects something little out of you guys. So do it straight up. Being an admin is basically a job, cant handle then you'll be fired, want to be an ass and bitch back, you'll be fired. Example: Narf. Yes some of his points did make sense, but he over did it. |
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