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| The Fate Of Kever | ||
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| alcosatz |
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FT Classic Op
Registered Member #39
Joined: Fri Dec 02 2005, 10:30PMPosts: 1545 |
Goose and I talked about this earlier tonight. The number of complaints, as explained by Goose, is getting to the point where Kever is a common and exhausting topic of discussion as far as hacking accusations are concerned. I understand the burden that administrators experience by listening to players complain about all sorts of egregious behavior. My stats this year don't indicate that I've played much this year (month) but I can assure that I've been around for a while.  The topic at hand, Kever, and the accusations of her hacking, is something that I am told we all deal with all the time. The limited time I have spent on FTC (and playing anything, really) must, however, be considered moot at this point.In many ways I do not have a comprehensive understanding of the day-to-day affairs of FTC for the past several weeks. I must respect the opinion of our more dedicated FT Classic members and take a situation that I have tried to solve by limited speculation and turn it over to the true stewards of FT Classic -- the people that play every day and have a much greater degree of understanding of the intricacies of FTC than I would ever hope to understand. OK, so I'm laying it on a bit thick, but I'd like to point out that without playing much the past few weeks I still have a pretty good idea of what is going on with FTC.  Kever is someone that is frequently accused of hacking and yet no one has offered conclusive proof that she hacks. Set that aside and consider the fact that the sheer number of people that complain about her allegedly hacking creates a lot of stress among FTC regulars, FT members on FTC, and especially FTC admins.Just to be clear: I am not addressing the issue of whether Kever hacks or not. What I would like to address, based on Goose's suggestion, is that we decide whether we should be burdened with the responsibility both as FTC admins and FTC regs/members of constantly telling others that Kever has not been conclusively proven as a hacker and is therefor allowed to play on FTC. I believe many admins have read my previous comments about needing conclusive demos of Kever hacking (solely based on my opinion I have seen zero, others apparently disagree) and feel powerless to ban her. This has created much dissension among FT Classic admins and we need to either ban Kever or get over and get back to playing. I have already stated that I do not believe Kever hacks but the underlying issue of this thread is not whether Kever hacks or not. The goal is to find out whether "veteran" FT Classic members believe the amount of controversy caused by this player justifies her privilege of playing on FT Classic. So one last time: WE ARE NOT DEBATING WHETHER KEVER HACKS OR NOT. Goose suggested we put this to a vote, and I tempered that suggestion with the caveat that only FT Classic players with more than 50 hours are allowed to cast a vote. This is not a FT Community Clan vote or anything similar. Really, I would like "veteran" FTC officers answers the following question: Based on your understanding of the number of complaints, and amount of strain those complaints place on all players (regulars, FT'ers, and FTC admins), should Kever be banned from FT Classic? Please answer 'yes' or 'no' and make sure you have more than 50 hours on FTC before you answer! Feel free to explain the basis for your vote. Thanks! |
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| BuBBLe GooSe |
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The Original MilfHunter
Registered Member #163
Joined: Mon Mar 06 2006, 02:24PMPosts: 1592 |
I say Yuppers to the ban based on.... 1. It pisses me off when FT's, Regulars and Newcomers constantly claim "Hacker, ban Kever" and as an admin, there's nothing that can be done because the demos that were provided were 'inconclusive' based on solely Alex's opinion. I figure that the opinion might have been swayed given their IM buddy buddy relations and no offense to Alex, but many people would have viewed the demos in a different light. Like you said Alex, you haven't got a chance to play all that frequently so for most FTCers, the 'demos' play on everytime we are in spec. If you count the number of people banned in FTC history, how many Demos went along with it? 0? So why should this individual be treated any different? 2. I'm pissed when Newcomers say "How do you let that hacker play on your server?" directed at admins yet based on Alex's special intrest toward this individual, nobody can do anything. Why was Dreiz' 2nd SteamID recently banned and why aren't TKing turds shown the same love with their own threads? Cuz Admins take action on the spot. Same thing Omni did when he banned 'her' the first time. 3. I'm pissed when people say "Goose why don't you ban Kever?" time and time again and I'm left to rudely give a 'no response' because of the way admins are handcuffed with regards to this individual. 4. I say tell 'her' to find another server to play on. Screw it, 'she' hasn't contributed anything worthwhile so why are we even putting in this much effort? Her only contributions are the endless hacker accusations and the percieved impotence on the admins part by not being able to do anything about it. Its ONE ban on a list of what, hundreds and this one will prove to be the most beneficial because no longer will these comments circulate surrounding her BS. 5. I'm pissed that all of this could have been avoided if Omni's initial ban wasn't overturned because all of a sudden 'demos' were needed. I'm sure the connection count will survive without Kever and personally, I'd much rather have someone else who is not problematic playing in her spot. Has anyone ever greeted Kever when 'she' comes on the server? Anyone ever see a "Hi Kever!" Hells no, 'she' is hated by many and several times a day people ask to have her banned. I have done ingame votes on a full/near-full server a few times with every vote except 1 or 2 returning in favor "Does Kever hack?" "Yes" The point is that the "Kever Hacks" mentality is so deeply rooted within FTC that in order to please the majority, it would be best to get rid of the cause of the problem. If we vote to keep Kever, then Admins will have the special task of defending Kever's legitimacy from accusations by Regs and Newcomers. If people accuse Kever of hacking and admins don't come to Kever's defence, it will be as though that type of behavior is acceptable and OK on FTC. I'm not ready to stand up for Kever, I'd rather add her to the ban list and forget about 'her' altogether. Edited Tue Jan 30 2007, 07:52AM |
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| Baghdad Bob |
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Accused H4xor
Registered Member #383
Joined: Fri Aug 11 2006, 10:42PMPosts: 350 |
Yes "How can you kill which has no life?"(South Park Episode 1008 - Make Love, Not Warcraft). Okay Kever needs to play with her own kind aka experts only server. I am one of the few who has a decent ratio against Kever (.80). Kever is a monster who devours anyone who comes across her path. She takes away the fun out of the game and causes major problems. Goose has already pointed out that people lash out at the admins and complain that she hacks. She doesn't contribute to the community to make is worth while to protect her. So I feel she needs to get the boot so we can continue to kill each other in peace. |
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| Wildcard23 |
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Registered Member #514
Joined: Wed Dec 20 2006, 06:33AMPosts: 1067 |
Yes but with an explanation. I personally like Kever. Contrary to what Goose has said I constantly say hi to Kever when she is in game and she always answers with a hi back. People have made jokes against her or said they want to marry her and she'll reply with the radio command for "Negative." Granted, no one really knows if she is in fact a she or a he because she has never used a mic if she has one. But does it really matter? She registered with the site with a somewhat female AIM user name but that doesn't mean anything. It doesn't matter if it's a female or if it's a male pretending to be a female if that's what gets his rocks off. In game, she is a beast. There is no other way to say that. She runs the tables in a fashion that leads you to believe there is no human on this planet that can play that good. So many members and admins have spec'd her and came to the conclusion that there is nothing conclusive to 100% say she is hacking. There is a possibility that she is just that freaking good. I like to believe that in this society you are innocent until proven guilty but I feel this community can and will handle it differently. This community and server survives because people want to come play on our servers. It is constantly written and said by new players that they like our server because of the people and the good time that we have in game. We need to ensure that members still want to come to our server and I feel horrible that it's going to be at the expense of condemning Kever. However, we want people to come play on our server and not see Kever's name in game and decide to go to another server so they don't get their ass handed to them by her every single round. Bob is right when he said that Kever needs to play on an expert only server. I agree that the admins have had a tough job along with some other members constantly defending her in game from the numerous complaints of hacking that seem to surface. However, it has been done up to this point and has been handled well by all involved. Kever is registered with the site but has contributed very little if nothing to the community so far. With that said, I do want to say that she never bitches in game. When she is killed she doesn't make excuses, she is never disrespectful to anyone, and doesn't lash out at people. I bring this up because as I was reading this thread I had one other member's name constantly popping into my head that I want to touch on. Steel. Steel and Kever are in the same league. However, Kever is respectful in game and Steel is not. Steel constantly bitches at people in game, he's disrespectful to everyone that isn't an admin, he constantly makes excuses when he is killed saying there was lag or just randomly saying that is bullshit, and should someone lose the round for his team, he doesn't hesitate to let them know that he thinks they suck. I have heard more complaints lately about Steel hacking and his conduct ruining the gaming experience for those playing than I have heard over Kever. At least Kever is respectful in game. Therefore, if we are going to ban Kever and tell her that she is going to have to play on an expert server, then we need to ban Steel as well. For nothing else, just to tell him that he needs to find an expert server to allow the rest of our members to enjoy themselves and not have him kill 5 or 6 people each round and then brag about how he is such a badass. I firmly stand by my views that I like Kever but I think she needs to play on an expert only server. And if we as a community choose to tell her that, then we damn well need to include Steel in that ban as well for the good of the server and the community. |
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| Kever |
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kever
Registered Member #470
Joined: Sun Oct 29 2006, 02:47PMPosts: 83 |
Please, just lock this thread and ban me. I don't wanna anymore. 
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| .neXTt |
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Registered Member #507
Joined: Thu Dec 14 2006, 01:42PMPosts: 539 |
like wildcard, i personally like kever too. even thought i'm not sure if she's a boy or girl (which is irrelevant). i personally don't think she hacks at all. but this also what this thread is talking about i'll get to the point. i think she shoudl have the privilege to play on FTC unless someone actually gets 100% proof that she is hacking. i mean i've seen her play in other servers before and everything. and hell, there are times when my score is the same as hers (i know surprising). i guess its just the way she plays on office that gives her that 'hax0r score' besides that, also like what wildcard said, she is respectful, she nevers talk crap and she likes to joke around. one of the reasons why she doesn't talk so much though is because so many people are disrepectful to her. i asked her why she didn't talk, and she said 'whenever i say anything, i just get called a hacker or a bitch.' what has kever honestly done (besides bugging admins with all the hacking accusations) that is THAT bad. she's never pissed anybody off (besides playing too good), she's never smoked nades or anything, team flashed (maybe on accident when someone ran right into it), she likes to have fun. and isn't that what FTC is about? you can tell when she's playing on T, she runs around the proj room jumping and destroying everything, glocking the hostie's foot lol. she's really done nothing wrong, and if anything, i wish there were more players like her. she plays well, has no attitude, and gets along well. usually the people who wants her to get banned is the people that are pissed that she kills them too often (besides the admins that are getting annoyed about the complaints) why not get steel banned either? >.> my vote is let her stay until there is actual evidence and proof that she hacks. Edited Tue Jan 30 2007, 12:59PM |
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| Cha Siew Bao |
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Registered Member #133
Joined: Sat Jan 21 2006, 09:03PMPosts: 198 |
Yes Its true that her style of play basically dominates on our server, popping out and killing guys in the head and then hiding back, but a ban just on this would not be valid. My main reason for voting Yes is because of the fact that her being on our server serves as a deterrent for newer players to join and become regs on FTC. New players who are somewhat open minded don't know the difference between a 'hacker' and someone with her kalibur of skill. Those though, can be explained to and they'll either A) leave the server join later  suck it up and keep playing. It seems that aside from the obvious speed hacks with the players flying around the screen, walling where they already know where the players are, and the one shot-one head shot actions, the majority of players out there right now cannot tell the difference between a highly skilled player and a hacker. My guess is about 80% of the players including a few of our regs don't understand that hacks can even be toggled. Back to the main point, when new players see all this accusations, the admins not taking much admin not even a "quiet down" in the green text, i see a couple of them leave. So there i love you kever but unfortunately you're just too big of a deterrent. Wildcard23 wrote ... I bring this up because as I was reading this thread I had one other member's name constantly popping into my head that I want to touch on. Steel. Steel and Kever are in the same league. However, Kever is respectful in game and Steel is not. Steel constantly bitches at people in game, he's disrespectful to everyone that isn't an admin, he constantly makes excuses when he is killed saying there was lag or just randomly saying that is bullshit, and should someone lose the round for his team, he doesn't hesitate to let them know that he thinks they suck. I have heard more complaints lately about Steel hacking and his conduct ruining the gaming experience for those playing than I have heard over Kever. At least Kever is respectful in game. Therefore, if we are going to ban Kever and tell her that she is going to have to play on an expert server, then we need to ban Steel as well. For nothing else, just to tell him that he needs to find an expert server to allow the rest of our members to enjoy themselves and not have him kill 5 or 6 people each round and then brag about how he is such a badass. I'd have to agree with wild here. Because you're bringing up a player who has done nothing wrong other than raise suspicions of hacking but only when she's on T. As a player and as a member of the forums you can't say that Kever hasn't been helpful or contributed to the server. How the hell can Kever contribute to the server when half the admins think she's hacking and already have hatred towards her and shes not even in FT and probably won't get in BECAUSE of the fact that half the admins hate her. Out of all the players that complain about kever hacking, how many of them actually take the time to come onto the servers and register. They claim to be regs but every single one of the true regulars that come on the server are already registered to in [FT] already. With conduct, Compared to steel she's a saint. Kever dies without complaining, doesn't gloat even though 3/4 of CT died to her in the paper room, and I personally never seen her attack a teammate on purpose...i mean christ I even throw smoke nades at people once in a while. I was on the server yesterday with him with Mugen and as usual he was spoutting shit and trash-talking. Thats fine and all but when mugen commented on why he did that every round he got in a pissy-fit, came back as a diff name, tk'd a couple regs for a few rounds, and then left. He isn't much different from Kever skillwise as depending on which team he's on it comes out to a greater than 42 score difference between the two teams. Since you brought up banning players who are deterring players away from the server consider steel as well. |
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| Evilpig |
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01nk3d bY tEh P1g
Registered Member #531
Joined: Thu Jan 04 2007, 05:27AMPosts: 707 |
I've seen Kever play and she seems like a REALLY PRO player. Not to mention that she is polite to everyone. Steel on the other hand raises questions tho. | ||
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| Jesus |
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Jesus not HeyZeus
Registered Member #370
Joined: Mon Jul 31 2006, 03:49AMPosts: 332 |
Ok a couple things I gotta say here I used to really hate kever there was no doubt about it but not really as much anymore so if that was all there was to it I would say no. On the other hand like everybody else has said Kever really is just a lot higher calibur of a player than the rest of the people who play on ftc for the most part, and it is this which gets very annoying to players especially the new players to the server. So for this fact I would say that she should probably find a server full of experts where she can get even better because she won't get any better playing with the majority of the people who play FTC( no offense to anybody who plays there but for the most part that is true and yes I am including myself in that sentiment because I get killed entirely too much by her) Then there is the people constantly complaining about her, no matter when I am on and she is on I always see complaint after complaint about her and it really does get ridiculous and ridiculously annoying to see ban kever she hacks like every round. So because of that I would say yes. But I digress there to ban kever would really just be the easy way out for the admins I mean yes I know like I have already said that it is really annoying seeing complaints every round but she does have as much right to have fun on the server as the rest of us and she obviously enjoys playing on the server and like others have said she never complains or whines or FFs or TKs or anything, and besides all the complaints of hacking I have never had a complaint about her. So for that reason I would say no. My Conclusion: Maybe what we should do is talk to Kever maybe ask her if she would find another server or two that are pro servers where she can play with people of her own calibur so that new players don't leave because they keep getting killed by her. But at the same time tell her that she is welcome on FTC but(in a very nice way) tell her that a lot of people think she hacks and that isn't good for keeping the server populated and allowing the newer players especially to have fun and so maybe just come around and play every once in a while. Now to the other subject that was brought up on Steel. I totally agree with the people saying he should be banned he is a total dick period end of story, and I especially think he should be banned if we are going to ban kever. Just my two cents take it or leave it. |
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| aborted fetus |
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The All-Cum Diet
Registered Member #47
Joined: Mon Dec 05 2005, 04:55PMPosts: 1888 |
I'll try to keep this brief... Yes, I think we should consider getting rid of kever. Kever's being on the server is extremely disruptive to other players, regulars, and admins. The kever situation is much like my old "gay porn" sprays. While a few cocks on the walls of FTC was never proven to negatively affect other players' abilities, it was disruptive as hell. When I used the "gay porn" sprays, people spent a lot of time complaining to other players and admins. Kever, like pictures of squirting cocks, is disruptive. She takes the focus away from the game and I am tired of hearing about it. We sacrificed one person's (mine) joy of "gay porn" sprays for the larger community, and I think it's time we view the Kever situation in the same light. She may not be hacking (cock sprays won't hurt you), but enough people have complained that it is time we do something. P.S - she had an extremely bad habit of messing with her flashlight. |
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