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| [moved] 100% in support of a Kever Permaban | ||
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| jigg4joe |
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Registered Member #326
Joined: Wed Jul 05 2006, 04:15AMPosts: 635 |
bye kever, i have a feeling you won't be wanting to show up after this one  thx for all the strats i learned from you! Edited Sun Mar 25 2007, 06:46PM |
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| tastecoldsteel |
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Registered Member #85
Joined: Thu Dec 22 2005, 01:36PMPosts: 14 |
You know what I retract it all. Judging by the posts that ive already gotten I can see that bringing this up was useless, I too will sit back and just watch the show. I was a little disappointed that some of you thought i was tying to get rid of him because "hes better than me" Ive been playing here off an on 2 years and this is the FIRST time ive recommended a ban because of hacking im not just some random kid screaming about hacks. The dozens of people that have wittnessed the same things must all be lying and made up the same story that I am. "here we go agian" your damn right here we go again things like this tend to keep coming up when an issue isnt resolved and it looks like this one never will be. Forget it clearly I made a mistake in bringing this back up clearly its point less. | ||
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| A Drunk |
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Registered Member #437
Joined: Sat Sep 23 2006, 02:18AMPosts: 1224 |
tastecoldsteel wrote ... People cindove want some evidence.You know what I retract it all. Judging by the posts that ive already gotten I can see that bringing this up was useless, I too will sit back and just watch the show. I was a little disappointed that some of you thought i was tying to get rid of him because "hes better than me" Ive been playing here off an on 2 years and this is the FIRST time ive recommended a ban because of hacking im not just some random kid screaming about hacks. The dozens of people that have wittnessed the same things must all be lying and made up the same story that I am. "here we go agian" your damn right here we go again things like this tend to keep coming up when an issue isnt resolved and it looks like this one never will be. Forget it clearly I made a mistake in bringing this back up clearly its point less. |
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| gagerockz |
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Registered Member #547
Joined: Tue Jan 23 2007, 08:53PMPosts: 60 |
okay guys . will u stop it about kever . she he or w/e is not a hacker, trust me i got vac banned about 2 weeks ago for hacks that were like non vac hacks or w.e, anyways what im saying is she he cannot hack .. yes also she he has been playing the the Tank for a while so im preety sure that she or he would have been banned along time ago . Edited Sun Mar 25 2007, 06:54PM | ||
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| bleek |
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#woo
Registered Member #23
Joined: Fri Nov 25 2005, 11:39PMPosts: 665 |
gagerockz wrote ... trust me i got vac banned about 2 weeks ago for hacks that were like non vac hacks or w.e, . *sigh* |
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| [FT] tRuEAgLe |
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![[FT] tRuEAgLe](/media/avatar/100x0/upload/att57023.1189375977.jpg)
Registered Member #386
Joined: Mon Aug 14 2006, 12:50PMPosts: 166 |
this whole defending kever is fuckin pitiful!! Especially to suggest that steel or myself are jealous!!! i am the one who banned the hemaphrodite and i will take whatever consequences for the 1 day ban or whatever that was!!! So do with me what you will i am fucking tired of this petty protection of the little pissant!!!! and if i experience the same shit with him/her when she starts to do bad and leaves and comes back to go for a 14and 0 run there is something wrong with that so thats my say also stfu drunk you were the one on the biggest ban kever rant before so stop licking omegas ass you but munch!!!!! Edited Sun Mar 25 2007, 07:14PM | ||
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| A Drunk |
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Registered Member #437
Joined: Sat Sep 23 2006, 02:18AM Posts: 1224 |
MODERATOR (Alcohol-Powered): Post removed. Edited Sun Mar 25 2007, 07:26PM | ||
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| Noname|Boom |
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That one guy...
Registered Member #250
Joined: Tue May 09 2006, 11:59PMPosts: 2603 |
T_T someone lock this shitstorm down. | ||
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| bleek |
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#woo
Registered Member #23
Joined: Fri Nov 25 2005, 11:39PM Posts: 665 |
[FT wrote ... tRuEAgLe] this whole defending kever is fuckin pitiful!! Especially to suggest that steel or myself are jealous!!! i am the one who banned the hemaphrodite and i will take whatever consequences for the 1 day ban or whatever that was!!! So do with me what you will i am fucking tired of this petty protection of the little pissant!!!! and if i experience the same shit with him/her when she starts to do bad and leaves and comes back to go for a 14and 0 run there is something wrong with that so thats my say also stfu drunk you were the one on the biggest ban kever rant before so stop licking omegas ass you but munch!!!!! *claps* Thank you eagle!! Finally! Somebody comes in a discusses this in a logical, calm manner, by providing valid points and proof of hacking, in a respectful and meaningful manner. [CLOSED], please stop making threads like this without proof. Next time you make a thread with requesting a ban for hacking please, provide a Demo as the rules state. Edited Sun Mar 25 2007, 07:32PM |
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| alcosatz |
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FT Classic Op
Registered Member #39
Joined: Fri Dec 02 2005, 10:30PMPosts: 1545 |
Thanks to bleek for locking this thread; however, I've reopened it for a few reasons. The first is that this issue is not simply going away because the thread was locked. The recipient of the ban by Trueagle is now unbanned but I have no indication that he (Trueagle) or TCS will not turn around and do the exact same thing in the future. I feel obligated to discuss what went wrong, under what circumstances, and also what can we can learn from this event. The second reason I want to reopen this thread is to direct more attention and discussion to the larger issue of how admins handle hacking. Kever will not be the last (insubstantially, in my opinion) person accused and banned for allegedly hacking and we need to figure out a better process of handling these types of situations. I'm going to respond to some of the quotes in this thread, but I'm not trying to rekindle any animosity among those who have already posted here. I am going to let off a little steam about the posts by TCS and eagle, but I it would be uber if we could remain calm here on forums and discuss this issue... tastecoldsteel wrote ... Im fed up with it. I was on earlier today on cts with true eagle and I ha d to deal with more Kever BS. I dealt with it yesterday when he pulled off a headshot in the thick of 2 smoke grenades and I let it go but today true eagle manned up today and did something about Kever and I wanted to say right now that I support him. It doesn't sound like you "let it go" at all. It sounds like you were frustrated and, rather than deal with separate circumstances causing your frustration, you decided to assign the responsibility to one person. When you mysteriously packed up and quit CS:S earlier this year you said: tastecoldsteel wrote ... Im out....im quitting cs for good.. came very close to breaking my monitor today. ...I have to wonder whether you support banning an alleged hacker because you and Trueagle were too stressed out about team balance (or just frustrated with CS:S in general) and banning was the easiest way to relieve your stress, or whether you made a rational decision that someone was actually cheating. tastecoldsteel wrote ... Crazy Russian,Screwed & Chopped, Desperado...do any of these people sound familiar to you. it not theres a reason they were permanently banned from the server for suspicoius play without question (from way back in the day like early-mid 2005). Why is Kever allowed a free pass at excessive BS is it because many of you think its a girl. Generally speaking, when people are killed by a consistent 2:1+ KDR player there is rarely an abundance of "oh wow, that was an incredible shot" or "can't believe you pulled that HS off but you got me fair and square." It's much easier to call it a "BS shot" or call the person a hacker, etc. etc. ad nauseam. I think lots of players are labeled "suspicious" of hacking when the accusers are frustrated and paranoid, and especially when they're on the opposite team as the accused. The comments about a "free pass at excessive BS" are mildly irritating because it only compounds your lack of reasoning. If anything, you're looking to use a "free pass" to make unfounded judgments without basing it on anything but your intuition. Why do you feel entitled to this "free pass" of wanting to see a regular banned yet you offer no proof? tastecoldsteel wrote ... Why is there so much supprt for this guy, whenever hes questioned about it he just simply replies "no im not hacking" and says nothiung else for the rest of the round . If he cares that little about being accused of hacking why not ban him. So what if hes in a league that doesnt give him a license to cheat. This is sort of ironic. You're asking for a regular to prove that she is not a hacker, yet you're committed to providing absolutely no proof that this particular regular IS a hacker. Given the circumstances, you are being obnoxiously dismissive of a regular FT Classic player. Why are you so eager to flash your admin badge and mention your FTC history (since 2005), or what some may be so bold as to call a "free pass," and have everyone just accept your opinion? I understand that I myself and others use admin/op status as something with which to browbeat other people into accept my opinion, but I at least try to back it up with something other than my feelings. That's all I really see you doing and your feelings are not enough to sway my opinion. tastecoldsteel wrote ... I just want to close with this weve banned people for looking half as suspicious as this guy is why are we changing policy now lets get rid of him for good . Good Job eagle way to go ahead and do what many of us wanted to do but couldnt . Policy? You mean like this: -[link]- ? Yes, that applies to you. tastecoldsteel wrote ... You know what I retract it all. Judging by the posts that ive already gotten I can see that bringing this up was useless, I too will sit back and just watch the show. I was a little disappointed that some of you thought i was tying to get rid of him because "hes better than me" I don't think that you're jealous or anything like that but you're giving up so easily because there wasn't an immediate outpouring of support for your opinion that someone is hacking? You didn't give it much time and you seem impatient as well as frustrated. You genuinely appear to feel this person is hacking but you haven't built much of a case. tastecoldsteel wrote ... Ive been playing here off an on 2 years and this is the FIRST time ive recommended a ban because of hacking im not just some random kid screaming about hacks. The dozens of people that have wittnessed the same things must all be lying and made up the same story that I am. "here we go agian" your damn right here we go again things like this tend to keep coming up when an issue isnt resolved and it looks like this one never will be. Forget it clearly I made a mistake in bringing this back up clearly its point less. The dozens of people that have complained about supposed hacking and not offered proof are not people I want to blindly trust. You've joined that illustrious crowd and, while you seem genuinely upset about what you perceive as a hacker (again) you're doing nothing to prove it. [FT wrote ... tRuEAgLe] this whole defending kever is fuckin pitiful!! Especially to suggest that steel or myself are jealous!!! Ok. By the same token, defending your irresponsible actions and blatant lack of posted, documented policy is pitiful as well. What you seem to forget is that there is a social element in all of this. When you ban the friend of many FTC'ers those people tend to stick up for their friends. What is so complicated about this? No one has offered demos and anything substantial to indicate Kever hacks. If it's such a problem why have these dozens of people chosen to avoid posting demos? And since you're oblivious to the social environment here let me give you a clue: people get aggigated, myself included, when people like you are unwilling to follow documented policy for banning regulars. In case you missed it: -[link]- ... consider yourself enlightened. [FT wrote ... tRuEAgLe] i am the one who banned the hemaphrodite and i will take whatever consequences for the 1 day ban or whatever that was!!! Your insults are even more cheap and gratuitous than those levied against you. Try spending a little more time explaining why you felt compelled to ban a regular without proof as well as explaining why you chose to avoid stated policy. Name calling after you made the blunder of banning this person, in absence of a legitimate reason, really doesn't help your case much. Your position sounds shrill and it gives me every indication that you made a terrible decision. [FT wrote ... tRuEAgLe] So do with me what you will i am fucking tired of this petty protection of the little pissant!!!! and if i experience the same shit with him/her when she starts to do bad and leaves and comes back to go for a 14and 0 run there is something wrong with that How about instead of flipping your shit when you see someone go 14-0 you just leave? Take a break and calm yourself, perhaps? If you're getting this stressed out over someone consistently playing well then why assign blame for your own frustration to someone else? I think you should deal with it yourself and on your own terms, especially when it is clear skilled players are not going 14-0 just to give you an apoplectic fit. Stop making your problem everyone else's problem. I say this from personal experience (not from accusing players of hacking, rather blaming them for team imbalance) because I've made the same mistake numerous times, and it really doesn't do anything positive for anyone involved. As much as you may think you're helping keep FTC clean of hackers you're really just trying to blackball someone and doing an excessively poor job of it. Goose made an exceptionally helpful suggestion yesterday which was to get a demo of Kever playing legitimately. This is ironic because the folks that are so eager to suggest we ban her can't put forth a modicum of effort to actually demo her supposedly hacking. Thanks to Drunk and Goose for coming up with and executing the idea of a legit Kever demo: -[link]- Feel free to watch that and pay close attention to the streak of kills, sometimes a little sloppy and with many missed bullets, but a streak of kills none the less. On a side note, I recommend using the 'demoui' command from console to slow down the playback of the demo so you can get a nice view of all the kills and watch where her gun is aimed (to rebuff wallhacking claims, etc.) These are the same types of kills you see on FTC and they result in the same type of "14-0" score which causes people like to TCS and Trueagle to lose their cool and start claiming hax. Sort of ironic that a demo is being used to show someone can play so well and not hack, isn't it? Ok, my steam has officially been let off about those comments by TCS and Trueagle, and I really want to get beyond the specific issue of Kever. Now the aftermath, and what we can hopefully learn and discuss. This is mainly geared towards FTC admins: 1. Banning regulars without proof, notice, or even a discussion is not acceptable. It's been posted for months and ignorance is not an excuse. Again, for those that missed it and continue to miss this sticky thread in the FTC forum: -[link]- 2. Social credit has power (at least on FTC and when I'm involved). If you ban regulars, especially regulars that are friends of ops, admins and other FTC'ers alike then you'll get a reaction. Don't piss and moan when people stick up for their friends. If you can't fathom how social credit can work for the defense of a regular accused of hacking then please consider why you are an admin. It's a two-way street. Admin on FTC has always been about trust and dedication. There are varying circumstances, but banning regulars with an unblemished record of courteous and respectable conduct does not increase trust in the admins doing the banning, and sapping FTC of regulars with insubstancial hacking bans does not express dedication. Make any sense? 3. Don't make a claim of hacking simply because you can't find a better reason to get rid of someone. If you can't cope with skilled players on FTC and the best you can come up with are flimsy accusations of hacking then take a break and figure out how to deal with it. If that repeatedly fails then please tender your resignation and find something better to do with your time. 4. Discretion is still up to admins, but it must be tempered with accountability. An admin tenure that extends for many months does not exempt you from being accountable for your actions. 5. If you do this to Kever today and succeed in banning her or driving her away, then what's to stop you from continuing this trend? Wouldn't I be an idiot if I tolerated admins that can't follow policy and accepted banning of rule-abiding regulars? Please, for my sake, consider the larger scope of your actions. I apologize if this post comes off as confrontational, but I'm growing weary of hacking claims without proof. Responses to this post are welcome but please avoid petty name calling as well as taking personal shots at one another. Hopefully people understand that this issue does not simply revolve around Kever, and applies to skilled regulars of FTC in general. Thanks for reading this, and again, I apologize if my criticism of TCS and Eagle is harsh; however, I felt it necessary based on their comments and attitudes. Edited Tue Mar 27 2007, 05:27AM |
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