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| Zero |
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I want to fuck your hand.
Registered Member #571
Joined: Thu Feb 15 2007, 09:59PMPosts: 2809 |
Boom, everything I said in a nutshell except with less anger. Thank you goose, I seriously always wait for your posts just so that everyone can see the light This does not mean future offenses go unpunished, it just means that as long as we all follow our "guidelines", things should run smoother. I still think a script should be implemented. only because admins obviously aren't always around, and it would remove such hassle. Leaving room for the "kisses", but yet, removing the constant instigators. |
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| Rusty |
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FTS Server Op
Registered Member #159
Joined: Wed Mar 01 2006, 06:33PMPosts: 2682 |
you guys write a lot. we on the other side of the planet (surf) have used the PEP as a guidline, and never tossed it (for the most part) and there hasn't been a real admin abuse thread in ages! But anywho, I really think the PEP is a great guideline, especially to newer admins (who tend to abuse a little more). But also, I think it is a responsibility of a head admin or server op to let their veteran admins know they need to cool off. But sometimes you may need a "fun" night where you let everyone get their admin abuse, or rule breaking out of their system (to an extent). I dunno, it's worked for us, and we haven't had and major problems to have them show up on the forums. Also, we do a lot of work in PMs and xfires/steam messages. |
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| b4ndito |
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b4ndito
Registered Member #958
Joined: Fri Jan 04 2008, 06:59AMPosts: 3385 |
Rusty wrote ... we on the other side of the planet (surf) have used the PEP as a guidline, and never tossed it (for the most part) and there hasn't been a real admin abuse thread in ages! When exactly DID Kool-Aid stop playing Surf? |
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| yourdroid |
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Registered Member #36
Joined: Thu Dec 01 2005, 06:12PMPosts: 214 |
I am going to assume that i didn't fully explain the details of my policy clearly. I'm not saying i'm going to hit the banstick just because someone with a past had an errant nade or something. I know you can't know what happened in every occurrence during every round. Especially not when you are in the middle of playing yourself. But in the somewhat obvious instances where 3 rounds in a row start with: "So and so" attacked a teammate "So and so" attacked a teammate or we start getting multiple complaints about teamflashing at the start of the round, as with what happened the other night. I'm not going to warn a regular. That drives away people and we need the new connections and they do know better. That blatantly stupid behavior drives people away very quickly. They don't sit around to see if an admin is on and how the situation is handled. They just see it and say to themselves; "this server sucks, it's full of little kids" then they leave. If the regulars and members who are on all the time are the ones doing it then that is what most people are going to see when they get on. I understand the argument about treating regs/members the same as everyone else, however, the way i see it i'm doing exactly what they always wanted. Whenever someone gets a few months under their belt on FTC, makes a few friends, or gets into one of the clans, they want respect. They want to have a bigger say in how things are run, what goes on the servers, how admins behave, when this should be done or who should be able to do what. That is fine, they do get those privileges to a point. Now i'm giving them the other half of that. With that respect you get held to a higher standard. If someone wants to be treated like someone visiting the server for the first time, then i'll treat their opinions on how the server is run the same way. As for admins, we should be held to an even higher standard than regulars. I believe i've stayed consistent in this belief in all the years i've played/been admin here. If an admin uses power for selfish reasons or personal amusement then they should be held accountable. They should have to obey all rules just like others, but to a higher degree. We should be called out when we don't. I have even called myself out on many occasions when others let it slide. As for the smoking analogy. Yes smokers do know better, and they can still do it without punishment just as long as it only affects themselves. They can't do it on airplanes or other public places because the second hand smoke affects those around them. The team attacking, flashing, ect, is now negatively affecting the servers and the community by driving away connections. So just like a smoker who refuses to put out a smoke on an airplane would get hit with fines or the like, regs get 15 minutes. I'm not stupid, i know banning everyone in sight doesn't set a good example for new people either. But after the other night I do know that something has to happen. I wasn't even on that long, so to have 3 people leave almost solely because of that stuff I can only guess at how many we may have lost over the last month, or will loose if we don't do something. Is my policy a good long term solution? No probably not. But at the rate we are going the long term won't matter all that much. With so many people leaving and school starting back up in a month we have to get new people to keep the server populated. |
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| Knightrider |
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Meteor 2016
Registered Member #316
Joined: Mon Jun 26 2006, 09:14PMPosts: 3503 |
I can say as a longtime admin that I am honestly content with the current procedure. As for it though, I tend to be a little more lenient as some people have stated in these forums when it comes to some things. Although FT is all about conduct and business compared to a handful of other servers that I have played in, it should not be a rule abiding strict boot camp server. Sometimes, I do the little "love tap" that Omni is talking about to a few members at the start of the round. It usually results in someone like Abadnewsbear chasing me around map until we both get capped in the face by a CT  However, I am well aware that some people are not prone to jokes and take CSS very seriously as you are doing right now, Droid.I know that when some people play this game, they take it a little too seriously. Granted, I'm not saying that you do this or anything, but for the most part, if you're going to be playing in Office, skill is not an objective, and a place like that should be somewhere to hang out and have fun. Obviously, a blatant team attacker should not be allowed, but you cannot dictate someone else's version of fun when you play the game. I think some things should be allowed, and some things shouldn't, and it can all be relevant to what's going on. For instance, if the T's are losing 10 straight rounds, and the people that honestly do play the game and like to win (Like me sometimes) are starting to get pissed because there's a guy sitting in the corner baiting his teammates or team attacking 3 people at the round's start, then yes, a course of action should be taken. But if the T's are raping face, you shouldn't have to worry about winning. That is why back hall nades was invented, to give the other team a break! When winning isn't really an objective, it's fun to kick it back and enjoy time with people on FT, especially listening to the drunks talk on the mic like Jazz The idea of recruiting new members is having them play in the server and enjoying themselves. If we were to splice out the little things like Evilpig's dance parties in projector room, Jazz laughing his ass off drunk on the mic, or the little pokes that make you smile running around laughing until you get capped in the face with an m4, FTC wouldn't be that enjoyable. As for a way of thinking for you to react to some things Droid, here is what I thought of. 1. If the CTs or Ts are getting raped, and people are fucking around and people are getting angry, suggest the people who are fucking around start getting their heads into the game because the people who are losing aren't enjoying themselves. A huge problem in servers is the lack of balance, and I blame a loss of connections mostly on balance. Aside from conduct, an admin's biggest priority should be team balancing. Obviously Alex's script in place fixes this problem, but if it doesn't, an admin should keep that in mind. 2. FTers know the rules, as you have suggested. I still think they should be given a warning, just like everyone else. However, if they fail to respond to a warning, a ban still shouldn't be necessary. It seems like you are getting too impatient with the escalation procedure and want to take affirmative action quicker than necessary, which is a little irrational. As Goosey or Alex had stated, an admin expressing power of that sort can scare people away. Again, we are running a server that should attract people, not scare them away because of harshness. 3. If you are not the only admin on, you can talk to another admin present on what you should do with the situation. I know that when I'm on I'm almost always on with another admin in which I consent about something almost all the time. 4. If you see that everyone else is having fun with what is going on, I don't think action should be taken. However, even if one person is complaining, action should be taken and the person that is leading the fun, whatever it may be, should be warned. It sounds like you are taking your own personal problems and fueling them into your decisions, and that shouldn't be the case. Being too quick on the banstick is going to be a turnoff, and I don't think that's going to really solve any of the issues with the connection problems. Really, I think it's going to make it worse in all honesty. Like Goosey said, a warning via green admin chat usually suffices. If a person keeps going despite the green chat warning, then they're a tool bag and deserve to be kicked. If they come back from the kick and keep going, then they deserved to be banned. It's all relevant, PED makes life easier! It's all a matter of your patience. Droid, don't take my post as a personal attack to you, as I enjoy playing with you and your humor. I just think that your thoughts on procedure are a little blown out of proportion. FTC admining is serious business, but fun shouldn't be overrode with harshness. |
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| yourdroid |
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Registered Member #36
Joined: Thu Dec 01 2005, 06:12PM Posts: 214 |
Knight, all good points. What about when an admin is not on though? If there is no admin to threaten punishment then they keep going and drive people out of the server. This isn't about taking the game seriously, it's about having some people grow up and start realizing when they are crossing the line and they need to stop. I believe i've always taken things somewhat in stride and leveled punishment relative to the circumstances of the situation. This new policy is no different. It just says that once they cross that line, whether i've been on the server a while or just got there, they get banstick rather than a warning. It's about accountability. Under the current system the warning just threatens people and tells them to stop. All a warning is is a big green message that says "alright children settle down, there is an adult here now". Just like in real life though, they need to grow up and learn that there are consequences for their actions when they cross the line; even if an adult isn't there to scold them the whole time. Regulars and clan members have this ego complex that I noticed. I know others notice it too. When they get into those "kisses" it's all good, everyone is having fun. Then some people who aren't regulars (and many times even regulars) get annoyed with it. They bring it up, and the regulars flame, are just disrespectful, and have a blatant "this is our server and this is how we like to play so fuck you" attitude. If there is no admin around to keep this in check it gets out of hand and we loose players. Just like admins need to keep the circumstances in mind when dealing out punishment, players need to keep the circumstances in mind when they choose whether to do "kisses" and how much they bs on the server. The kisses themselves aren't the problem, it's people not being mature enough to stop when they need to that is the problem. This isn't an "OMFG you hit a teammate; BAN", measure. This is more of a when i log on and nearly half the server is openly complaining about what a douche 1 or 2 regulars are being, I will no longer give out the "settle down children, adult in the room" warning (that you guys are right it does settle things down most of the time). Instead i'm going to hold those people accountable for their actions. The warning keeps people in check out of fear of retribution and punishment. This policy is trying to do the same thing for when there are no admins on. Try to instill the notion that if your breaking rules and disrupting the server when an admin is not on you will be held accountable. We can join at any time and there will be accountability. Not just a slap on the hand and settle down. Some people need a kick in the ass and a reason to start learning when they cross the line. As things are now they get a slap on the wrist and a chance to settle down until there are no admins around and they can do what they want again. Because the way things are now, if an admin didn't see it there is no real punishment. This is giving some people no reason to try to grow up. |
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| ABadNewsBear |
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Registered Member #611
Joined: Wed Mar 21 2007, 08:35PMPosts: 219 |
Knightrider wrote ... Sometimes, I do the little "love tap" that Omni is talking about to a few members at the start of the round. It usually results in someone like Abadnewsbear chasing me around map until we both get capped in the face by a CT So true. Anyway droid, I smoke attack pretty much every round so don't ban me. But knight raised good points in his post. I should add though that it doesn't have to be an admin who says stop, I even stop shenanigans when Sla asks me to (one round later). If it ain't broke, don't fix it. And the procedure isn't broken imo. |
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| Zero |
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I want to fuck your hand.
Registered Member #571
Joined: Thu Feb 15 2007, 09:59PM Posts: 2809 |
yourdroid wrote ... Knight, all good points. What about when an admin is not on though? If there is no admin to threaten punishment then they keep going and drive people out of the server. This isn't about taking the game seriously, it's about having some people grow up and start realizing when they are crossing the line and they need to stop. This is where my idea comes into play. If you are talking about trying to settle this without commotion and hold those accountable, we can use a script that can be tweaked to how we want it to work. Take faggot Sla for example. he feels that a kiss to one person every round for 10 rounds is fun(which tbh isn't really alot considering I do it ALL the time when I play, and thats like 36 rounds?), unfortunately our script doesn't like that, and kicks him, or bans him for 5 mins. This way, he learns that he can still do it, just not all the time. 15 minutes ban is too long in my eyes because it makes it so they don't even want to play anymore even if they have learned their lesson. or, even set team attacking higher at something like 20 times. That way you are SURE to catch a constant attacker, and the ban can be raised to 10 minutes. Is something like this institutional? can we institute this into our server or not. I'm just saying the possibility of it, I'm not saying it HAS to go in. I'm asking if this is even possible or am I just shooting fireworks out my ass. |
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| yourdroid |
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Registered Member #36
Joined: Thu Dec 01 2005, 06:12PM Posts: 214 |
zero i don't think it is about how many rounds or how many times a round someone does it. It's about being mature enough to stop when it starts to bother others. There is no script for that. Though your idea could help keep it in check i agree, but it hurts when we have all 10 people on the server who don't care if it goes on. Then a script gets in the way of their fun. | ||
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| Zero |
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I want to fuck your hand.
Registered Member #571
Joined: Thu Feb 15 2007, 09:59PM Posts: 2809 |
yourdroid wrote ... zero i don't think it is about how many rounds or how many times a round someone does it. It's about being mature enough to stop when it starts to bother others. There is no script for that. Though your idea could help keep it in check i agree, but it hurts when we have all 10 people on the server who don't care if it goes on. Then a script gets in the way of their fun. well you said it right there. "When it starts to bother others" Glas4d was never OUTSPOKENLY told that it was a nuisance. Sla never said stop then Noskill was on it, and never told him to stop this is where the green admin chat comes into play. They know they are doing something wrong, but until someone complains, they feel they are doing nothing wrong |
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